Key Moments
#57–Rick Rubin: collaborating with the greatest living musicians, & his personal weight loss story
Peter Attia MDKey Moments
Rick Rubin on his legendary music career, profound personal growth, and intense health and weight loss journey.
Key Insights
Rubin champions an art-first approach to music production, believing commercial success organically follows authenticity rather than being a primary goal.
His early career with Def Jam Records was marked by revolutionary hip-hop production and navigating complex music industry dynamics as a young entrepreneur.
A period of severe depression at 33 profoundly impacted Rubin, fostering greater empathy and a different perspective on artists' struggles.
Rubin, once morbidly obese, underwent a significant health transformation through disciplined diet and exercise, facilitated by experts like Phil Maffetone and Dr. Heber.
A challenging open-heart surgery for a congenital bicuspid aortic valve and dilated aortic root underscored his resilience and the mental toll of major interventions.
Rubin values living a life of continuous learning, hard work, and finding joy, demonstrating these principles through his creative process and physical pursuits like training with Laird Hamilton.
THE UNEXPECTED BEGINNINGS OF A MUSIC MAESTRO
Rick Rubin's iconic journey into music production began as a hobby, rooted in his love for music and the burgeoning hip-hop scene in 1980s New York City. A philosophy major turned film student at NYU, Rubin co-founded Def Jam Records in his dorm room, initially to produce his punk rock band's records. His method was to immerse himself in the underground scene, observing that existing hip-hop records lacked the raw energy found in live clubs. This observation fueled his innovative approach to production, which prioritized authenticity and a distinct sonic identity.
REVOLUTIONIZING HIP-HOP WITH DEF JAM
Rubin’s early work with Def Jam Records was instrumental in shaping the sound of hip-hop. Collaborating with artists like LL Cool J and the Beastie Boys, he introduced traditional song structures—verses, choruses, and hooks—to a genre previously dominated by lengthy monologues. This fusion of hip-hop's raw lyrical power with conventional pop sensibilities, exemplified in albums like LL Cool J's "Radio" and the Beastie Boys' "Licensed to Ill," created a revolutionary sound that resonated widely. Despite modest beginnings, Def Jam rapidly expanded its reach through a partnership with Columbia Records, bringing this groundbreaking music to a global audience.
NAVIGATING THE COMPLEXITIES OF THE MUSIC INDUSTRY
Rubin's departure from Def Jam, co-founded with Russell Simmons, stemmed from philosophical differences regarding artistic integrity versus commercial pressures. He found himself at odds with corporate policies that prioritized financial gain over artistic well-being, leading him to leave a highly successful venture to establish American Recordings. This decision, though financially risky, reinforced his commitment to creating authentic, uncompromited art, believing that genuine artistic merit would ultimately lead to commercial success. This principle guided his work with a diverse range of artists across various genres.
THE SUBTLE ART OF PRODUCTION: CURATING SOULS, NOT JUST SOUNDS
Rubin's approach to music production transcends technical skills; it's about connecting with the artist's essence. He sees his role as helping sensitive souls navigate life and the music business, often battling inner demons and external pressures. His experience with the Red Hot Chili Peppers, whose initial collaboration was derailed by addiction, highlighted the importance of addressing artists' personal struggles. Rubin strives to create an environment where artists feel safe to express their most vulnerable selves, fostering a pure artistic space where creativity flourishes unburdened by commercial anxieties.
CONFRONTING PERSONAL DEPRESSION AND REGAINING EMPATHY
At 33, Rubin experienced a crippling two-year bout of depression, triggered by a seemingly minor professional slight. This period, marked by intense therapeutic treatments and a desperate search for relief, profoundly changed him. Although he had always identified as sensitive, this personal ordeal deepened his empathy for artists struggling with their own pain, enabling him to connect with them on a more profound level. His journey through depression, including finding the right antidepressant and navigating its side effects, provided invaluable insight into the human condition and the complexities of mental health.
A REMARKABLE WEIGHT LOSS AND FITNESS JOURNEY
Rubin's personal health transformation from morbid obesity to a physically active lifestyle is a testament to his discipline. Weighing 318 pounds at his heaviest, despite years as a vegan believing he was eating healthily, he embarked on a rigorous journey under the guidance of Phil Maffetone. Maffetone introduced him to low-intensity exercise and a carbohydrate-restricted diet, slowly incorporating fish and eggs. This initial phase, though gradual in weight loss, significantly improved his overall health and vitality. His determination was evident in sticking to the plan for two years with minimal weight reduction, driven by improved well-being.
THE PIVOTAL SHIFT TO METABOLIC TRANSFORMATION
The next significant step in Rubin’s weight loss was prompted by a friend's concern, leading him to Dr. Heber at UCLA. Dr. Heber implemented a strict 1400-calorie, high-protein liquid diet, focusing on precise calorie and macronutrient control. This aggressive approach, combined with the metabolic groundwork laid by Maffetone, resulted in Rubin losing an astounding 135 pounds in 14 months. This phase underscored the importance of caloric restriction and sufficient protein intake to preserve muscle mass while targeting fat loss, highlighting the need for tailored dietary strategies beyond general health guidelines.
EMBRACING PHYSICALITY WITH LAIRD HAMILTON
After losing 90 pounds, Rubin connected with legendary surfer Laird Hamilton, initiating a new chapter in his physical transformation. Training with Hamilton and a diverse group of elite athletes, Rubin discovered the mental and physical challenges of functional fitness. From being unable to do a single push-up to achieving 100 consecutive, he embraced unconventional workouts involving balance, slow movements, and intense underwater training. This period redefined exercise for him, turning it into a creative, mentally stimulating pursuit rather than a mere grunt-work activity, fostering a profound connection between mind and body.
THE FEAR OF OPEN-HEART SURGERY
Rubin faced a life-altering health scare: a congenital bicuspid aortic valve and a dangerously dilated aortic root, requiring urgent open-heart surgery. Despite his aversion to medical interventions, a consequence of needle phobia and a past near-death experience with a ruptured appendix, he confronted the necessity of the operation. The six weeks leading up to the surgery were terrifying, filled with frantic research into alternative solutions and internal conflict. His resolve was tested, revealing a deep-seated fear of vulnerability and a battle between his naturalistic instincts and the medical imperative.
A MIRACULOUS INTERVENTION AND RECOVERY
Ultimately, Rubin underwent successful surgery at Stanford under the care of Dr. Joseph Wu, a highly specialized cardiac surgeon. His pre-surgical inquiries into advanced neuroprotective measures, like methylene blue and avoiding postoperative opiates and dextrose, showcased his proactive approach to health, even amidst extreme anxiety. The recovery process, including battling atrial fibrillation and significant sleep deprivation, solidified his understanding of human resilience. Though challenging, the experience left him with newfound empathy and a profound appreciation for life, marking a 90% recovery within six months as predicted.
THE PROFOUND LEGACY OF JOHNNY CASH
Rubin's work with Johnny Cash in the last decade of Cash's life was particularly poignant. Their collaborations produced some of Cash's most impactful music, including the acclaimed cover of Nine Inch Nails' "Hurt." Rubin observed Cash's deep connection to his spirituality as a coping mechanism for lifelong pain and trauma. He encouraged Cash to record daily after the death of his wife, June, recognizing that artistic expression was his reason for living. This period highlighted Rubin's role not just as a producer, but as a compassionate guide helping artists channel their suffering into profound art that resonated deeply with audiences.
LESSONS IN LIFE: FUN, HARD WORK, AND AUTHENTICITY
Reflecting on his life, Rubin emphasizes the importance of hard work, fun, and authenticity. He believes in embracing effort, not shying away from it, and sees personal growth as intimately linked to continuous learning and problem-solving. Through his experiences, he strives to impart to his son the value of pursuing one's interests with commitment, balancing diligence with joy. His life demonstrates that true lessons are imparted through action and example, fostering a loving environment where individuals are encouraged to discover and live their most authentic lives.
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Common Questions
Rick Rubin's legendary recording studio is located in Malibu, California. It was originally built by The Band and Bob Dylan in 1974, with many famous music events taking place there.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
Rick Rubin attended NYU, initially studying philosophy before switching to film and television.
The institution where Dr. David Heber, Rick Rubin's nutritionist, practices.
The institution where Joseph Wu, Rick Rubin's surgeon, is the head of cardiovascular surgery.
An underground reggae club in New York where hip-hop DJs from the Bronx and Queens would play on Tuesday nights.
A punk rock band that transitioned into hip-hop, with Ad-Rock finding LL Cool J's demo. Rick Rubin became their DJ and later produced their seminal album 'Licensed to Ill.'
The original artist of the song 'Hurt,' which Johnny Cash covered with Rick Rubin. Trent Reznor, the band's frontman, was initially not excited about it.
A roller rink in New York that became a major hip-hop venue after Negril, where Rick Rubin aimed to have his productions played.
Rick Rubin produced their album 'Blood Sugar Sex Magik' after initially declining to work with them due to negative energy from drug use.
A film referenced in the context of early Def Jam success, indicating that Run-DMC was already successful at the time of its release.
The second album Rick Rubin ever produced, belonging to the Beastie Boys, which sold 10 million copies and was highly influential.
First album by Red Hot Chili Peppers that gained significant attention for Peter Attia; potentially their fourth album overall.
A Sheryl Crow song covered by Johnny Cash, which he considered very special and would 'give up all other songs for.'
An album by the group Love, which Rick Rubin considers a favorite due to its distinct sound unlike any other.
A movie about Johnny Cash starring Joaquin Phoenix, which Peter Attia loved and found impactful for understanding Cash's trauma.
A song performed by Bruce Springsteen and Tom Morello at Madison Square Garden in 2009.
A band known for their 'hyper intelligence [and] anger.' Rick Rubin first saw them perform in the early 90s and later produced an album of covers and a live album for them.
A famous album made by The Band while they were living in Woodstock.
An album by Red Hot Chili Peppers whose songs Peter Attia enjoys, mentioning he listened to one track 53 times straight.
A heavy metal band Mo Ostin signed.
A film where all concert rehearsals and interviews took place at the Malibu studio.
The Nirvana song that 'changed everything' and marked a seismic shift in music, according to Peter Attia.
A song from 'Mother's Milk' that Peter Attia uses during his Tabata workouts due to its intensity and personally resonant lyrics.
The first album Rick Rubin produced with the Red Hot Chili Peppers after they addressed their addiction issues.
Rick Rubin's podcast, co-hosted with Malcolm Gladwell, on which he plans a deep dive into D'Angelo's 'Voodoo' album.
A Nick Cave song covered by Johnny Cash that was very special and resonated deeply with Cash.
An album by Rush, purchased by Peter Attia as his second CD.
A punk band Mo Ostin signed.
The Beastie Boys' second album, not produced by Rick Rubin, released after they left Def Jam.
The main producer for Run-DMC's first album, which contained revolutionary hip-hop sounds.
The actor who played Johnny Cash in the movie 'Walk the Line'.
Mentioned in the context of a video with Tom Morello performing 'The Ghost of Tom Joad.'
The lead singer of Rage Against the Machine, who grew up with Tim Commerford.
Peter Attia's best friend in eighth grade who was a DJ with Technics 1200 turntables and taught Peter about mixing hip-hop.
An artist discussed in the context of childhood trauma and self-medication, particularly his use of propofol to numb pain.
A health guru who helped Rick Rubin and Johnny Cash by changing their diets and exercise routines. He left his medical practice to become a songwriter.
The artist who wrote 'The Mercy Seat,' a song Johnny Cash covered that meant a lot to him.
A professional surfer and athlete who introduced Rick Rubin to a new dimension of physicality, making exercise mentally challenging and fun.
Former head of Warner Brothers Records for 35 years, who urged Rick Rubin to seek help from a nutritionist, Dr. David Heber, for his significant weight gain.
An artist Mo Ostin worked with.
Head of cardiovascular surgery at Stanford, chosen for Rick Rubin's aortic surgery for his high volume of reps and speed in performing the complex operation.
Perry Farrell, from this band, recommended Rick Rubin see Rage Against the Machine perform.
The artist who designed the original 'LOVE' poster, referenced in the context of Rage Against the Machine's album cover art.
Bob Dylan, along with The Band, built the recording studio in Malibu in 1974. His old trailer is also on the property.
An artist from Hollis Queens whose demo tape was found by Ad-Rock of the Beastie Boys and led to his first single and album produced by Rick Rubin. He was 16 at the time.
Russell Simmons's first big rapper, later eclipsed by Run-DMC.
An artist Mo Ostin signed.
Co-host of Rick Rubin's podcast, Broken Record.
An artist Rick Rubin tried to help when he relapsed, whose death was described as 'impossible' and surreal.
Johnny Cash's wife, whose death was a terrible setback for Johnny, as she was his reason for being alive.
Guitarist from Rage Against the Machine, whom Peter Attia's son mistook for Peter in a video with Bruce Springsteen.
From Jane's Addiction, he recommended Rick Rubin see Rage Against the Machine perform early in their career.
Described as a 'raw nerve' who felt things deeply, making him a great musician but making life painful, highlighting the self-medicating nature of artists.
An artist Rick Rubin worked with for the last 10 years of his life, seeing him recover from illness only to die shortly after his wife June, his reason for living.
Frontman of Nine Inch Nails, initially hesitant about Johnny Cash covering 'Hurt' but changed his mind after seeing the music video.
The Eagles member who liked Johnny Cash's version of 'Desperado'.
Led Zeppelin's drummer, a huge influence for Peter Attia's daughter's drum teacher.
The radiologist who called Peter Attia multiple times with urgent findings from Rick Rubin's cardiac MRI, leading to the diagnosis of his severe aortic condition.
A cardiac surgeon and mentor of Peter Attia who helped connect Rick Rubin with the best surgeon for his aortic condition.
Mentioned as having done a podcast interview in a sauna at Rick Rubin’s suggestion, which Rick deemed a 'one-time thing' due to the burning microphones.
Co-producer of Run-DMC's first album and co-founder of Def Jam Records with Rick Rubin. He also managed most hip-hop artists at the time.
An ultra-marathoner who ran 1000 miles in 11 days, whose book inspired Rick Rubin to seek out Phil Maffetone for health advice.
Mentioned as a public figure who also had a bicuspid aortic valve and needed similar heart surgery.
A more recent artist whose first album Rick Rubin found beautiful, original, and very touching.
Lead singer of Linkin Park, whose death was particularly heartbreaking for Peter Attia.
A researcher Peter Attia mentions, whose work on Alzheimer's disease and methylene blue made him realize the validity of Rick's earlier suggestion for neuroprotection.
Lead singer of Soundgarden and Audioslave, whose passing was 'unbelievable' and jarring for Rick Rubin.
The artist who wrote 'Redemption Day,' a song Johnny Cash covered. Cash said he would give up all other songs for it, and Crow was moved by his version.
The bassist for Rage Against the Machine, who grew up with Zack de la Rocha.
An artist Peter Attia wonders if his daughter will look at in 35 years the same way he looks at the Beastie Boys.
A super-fit, 70-year-old friend of Laird Hamilton and Rick Rubin, who owned Bally's Fitness and was impressed by Rick's early weight loss.
The neurosurgeon who initially suggested methylene blue for neuroprotection during cardiac surgery, advising Rick to discuss it with his primary surgeon.
A nutritionist at UCLA recommended by Mo Ostin, who put Rick Rubin on a strict 1400-calorie, high-protein shake diet, leading to a 135-pound weight loss in 14 months.
The new framework (record label) Rick Rubin started after leaving Def Jam, first called 'Deaf American' and then 'American.'
The legendary recording studio in Malibu, where the interview takes place, was built by The Band and Bob Dylan in 1974.
A band that released records shortly after Nirvana's breakthrough, marking a major label album debut.
Peter Attia posted about 'Knock Me Down' on Instagram, noting how its meaning changed for him over time.
Rick Rubin is the co-founder of Def Jam Records, a label intimately familiar to those who grew up in the hip-hop era of LL Cool J, Beastie Boys, and Public Enemy.
The record label Tom Morello's previous band was signed to.
A band whose three or four albums Rick Rubin produced; Peter Attia was particularly heartbroken by Chester Bennington's death.
A fitness company owned and built by Don Wildman.
The hotel on Sunset Boulevard where Rick Rubin lived for eight or nine months while working on a movie soundtrack in LA.
The record label to which the Red Hot Chili Peppers were signed when Rick Rubin first met them for a rehearsal.
A band Peter Attia became obsessed with, noting their relatively short 10-year career and buying their 5-disc box set as his first CD.
The record label run by Mo Ostin for 35 years.
An antidepressant prescribed by a psychiatrist/psychic that Rick Rubin took, leading to a terrible night and immediate cessation.
An antidepressant mentioned by a friend of Rick Rubin who found it to have 'wonders' and changed his life.
An antidepressant that Rick Rubin found effective for depression, but which caused him to gain 60 pounds in three months.
An intravenous solution preferred by Rick Rubin over dextrose for his surgery, aligning with his low-carb diet.
A life-threatening event where the aorta tears, a risk heightened by Rick Rubin's dilated aortic root, with a high per-hour mortality rate if untreated.
An album considered 'perfect' by Rick Rubin for its unconventional production, understated vocals, and thrilling, 'on the verge of falling apart' sound.
A condition where the aortic valve becomes harder to open, which Rick Rubin developed due to his bicuspid aortic valve. In its critical form, it carries a high risk of sudden death.
A practice Rick Rubin engages in, described as a 'forced meditation' due to its intense focus on survival and presence.
LL Cool J's first album, produced by Rick Rubin, which quickly became a hit due to its new sound and viral spread through independent distribution.
A congenital heart condition Rick Rubin was born with, where the aortic valve has two leaflets instead of three, predisposing to calcification and stenosis.
Phil Maffetone's approach to exercise, focusing on long, slow workouts within a specific heart rate zone to improve aerobic capacity.
A medical imaging scan that revealed Rick Rubin's severe bicuspid aortic valve, critical aortic stenosis, and dilated aortic root.
Peter Attia mentions listening to songs on shuffle through iTunes, which sometimes brings up older tracks with new meaning.
A type of weightlifting exercise Rick Rubin was focused on doing heavily before his heart condition was diagnosed, which Peter Attia advised him to stop.
A type of high-intensity interval training Peter Attia does once a week, often to intense music like Red Hot Chili Peppers.
A general anesthetic that Michael Jackson used to numb himself, highlighting his extreme self-medication.
A substance Rick Rubin considered using before surgery for potential protective benefits, although Peter Attia felt it was unlikely to be approved by the surgical team.
A sugar-based intravenous solution that Rick Rubin wanted to avoid during surgery due to his no-carb diet, preferring lactated ringers.
A substance Rick Rubin proposed using during his surgery for neuroprotective benefits during circulatory arrest, an idea supported by neurosurgeon Dr. Jack.
A wearable device Rick Rubin used, whose data showed poor sleep immediately following his heart surgery.
Turntables owned by Peter Attia's friend Mark Sillas, used for DJing and making mixtapes.
Phil Maffetone recommended Rick Rubin get a heart rate monitor to train within specific target zones during walks and jogs.
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