Key Moments
Steve Jurvetson Interview | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)
Tim FerrissKey Moments
Steve Jurvetson discusses disruptive tech, quantum computing, AI, and mission-driven investing.
Key Insights
Quantum computing is an emerging technology with the potential to solve problems beyond the scope of any classical computer, even those utilizing the entire matter of the universe.
Deep learning and neural networks represent a fundamental shift in engineering, enabling the creation of solutions that can exceed human understanding, driven by vast data and GPU advancements.
Existential risks for humanity include growing wealth inequality and social unrest, bioterrorism, and climate change with unforeseen consequences like hydrogen sulfide gas.
A successful venture capital strategy, particularly in early-stage investing, involves seeking out 'unique ideas'—companies doing something no one else has done before—rather than following hot trends.
Steve Jurvetson's 'never sell' philosophy and commitment to philanthropy align his interests with long-term, mission-driven companies, focusing on world-changing impact over short-term financial gains.
Cultured meat, grown from animal cells without slaughter, is an inevitable future that promises to revolutionize food production, addressing environmental, ethical, and supply chain issues with significant efficiency gains.
THE PARADIGM SHIFT OF QUANTUM COMPUTING
Quantum computing represents a profound leap in computational power, leveraging quantum mechanics principles like entanglement to achieve unprecedented speed-ups. Steve Jurvetson, an early investor in D-Wave Systems, explains that these computers, though refrigerator-sized due to extreme cooling requirements, can outperform classical supercomputers by millions or even billions of times on specific tasks. This power stems from 'qubits' existing in multiple states simultaneously, effectively exploring all possibilities at once, leading to instant solutions for complex problems. While the technology is still on the edge of what's believed possible, its potential for applications in quantum chemistry and deep learning is immense, promising breakthroughs in drug design and artificial intelligence far beyond current capabilities.
THE DAWN OF DEEP LEARNING AND NARROW AI
Deep learning and neural networks are fundamentally reshaping engineering, moving beyond traditional programming to 'grow' solutions to problems. Jurvetson likens this process to 'parenting more than programming,' where algorithms learn and evolve in ways that can exceed human comprehension or prediction. This revolution is fueled by three key factors: vast quantities of data (thanks to the internet and digital information), powerful GPUs (initially developed for gaming but perfectly suited for parallel computations), and algorithmic advances like the creation of 'deep' neural networks with many layers. This approach allows AI to excel in pattern recognition, image processing, and other complex tasks, making it a critical, widely applicable platform technology for the future, with potential impacts across every industry.
ENGINEERING INNOVATION AND EVOLUTIONARY LEARNING
Jurvetson views deep learning as the most significant advance in engineering since the scientific method itself, allowing for the creation of systems that operate beyond human design capabilities. He draws parallels to cellular automata, where simple iterative rules can lead to emergent, unpredictable complexity, similar to natural evolution. This 'growing' of solutions, rather than their explicit design, means that the internal workings of these advanced AIs may not be fully understood by their creators. This paradigm shift suggests a future where machines develop capabilities through iterative learning, rather than explicit human programming, leading to increasingly autonomous and powerful artificial intelligences that redefine human interaction with technology.
EXISTENTIAL RISKS AND SOCIETAL DISRUPTIONS
Jurvetson identifies several critical existential risks to humanity. The accelerating wealth gap, exacerbated by technology's winner-take-all dynamics, could lead to widespread social unrest if not adequately addressed by policymakers. Bioterrorism poses another grave threat, as advancements in synthetic biology make it increasingly feasible for individuals or small groups to create weapons of mass destruction. While he notes a strange societal reluctance for terrorists to pursue this path, the risk remains. Climate change, beyond its commonly understood impacts, also presents unforeseen dangers, such as the potential for hydrogen sulfide gas emissions from ocean dead zones, which historically have been linked to mass extinction events.
MITIGATING RISKS: PHILANTHROPY AND NEW ECONOMIC MODELS
To address the growing wealth disparity and societal unrest, Jurvetson points to the critical role of philanthropy, especially from tech entrepreneurs who often attribute their success to fortuitous timing rather than pure genius. This humility often translates into large-scale philanthropic efforts that can tackle global challenges beyond government capacities, like disease eradication. He also envisions future economic models where basic necessities like food, shelter, clothing, and healthcare become incredibly cheap due to technological advancements. This 'dollar-a-pound' economy would shift value to intellectual property and design, potentially enabling universal basic income or corporate-sponsored welfare systems, fostering a 'Renaissance' where individuals pursue meaningful work rather than traditional jobs.
THE 'NEVER SELL' PHILOSOPHY IN VENTURE CAPITAL
Jurvetson's 'never sell' investment philosophy for his personal holdings stems from a deep belief in the long-term compounding potential of truly disruptive companies. While caveats apply (shares are distributed by venture firms post-IPO), his personal choice to hold, and eventually donate, these shares aligns his interests with entrepreneurs focused on long-term value creation rather than short-term exits. This strategy, inspired by advice from a seasoned investor, allows him to ride out market volatility and benefit from power laws where a few outlier companies generate disproportionate returns. It also removes the 'corrosive thought process' of market timing, fostering unwavering support for the company's mission.
ELON MUSK VS. STEVE JOBS: LEADERSHIP AND VISION
Jurvetson contrasts Elon Musk and Steve Jobs, noting their distinct approaches despite shared success in leading multiple companies. Jobs was primarily 'marketing-centric,' driven by an intuitive, almost aesthetic, pursuit of design perfection, often without a clearly articulated business strategy from the outset. Musk, conversely, is a 'physicist-turned-engineer' who approaches challenges from 'first principles,' meticulously laying out detailed 'master plans' for his ventures, such as colonizing Mars or transitioning to sustainable energy. Both share a 'maniacal attention to detail' and the unique ability to focus intensely on core problems, avoiding distractions—a trait greatly enhanced by their dual CEO roles, which allows them to bypass trivial meetings and delegate extensively.
OVERCOMING CRISIS: MUSK’S INSURMOUNTABLE WILL
Elon Musk's 'risk immune' nature is exemplified by his actions during Tesla's darkest period in December 2008, amidst a global financial crisis, internal turmoil, and a failing product. When major investors pulled back and the company faced bankruptcy, Musk personally invested $40 million, borrowing $20 million and writing a $3 million check to cover payroll, going 'all in' when no one else would. Jurvetson describes this as Musk entering 'battle mode,' a state of laser-like focus where all distractions are pushed aside to solve critical problems. This extreme personal commitment and willingness to take on unprecedented risks not only saved Tesla but also galvanized other investors, flipping the prevailing 'fear to greed' by demonstrating unshakeable conviction in his mission.
COPING WITH PUBLIC BETRAYAL AND MEDIA ATTACKS
Jurvetson recently faced a 'surreal experience' of being falsely accused in a book and subsequent media of hosting a sex party, a claim he vehemently denies. This experience led to feelings of betrayal from certain individuals who perpetuated the misinformation, highlighting the erosion of journalistic ethics. However, he also experienced an overwhelming outpouring of support from close friends and colleagues, including Elon Musk, who publicly defended him. His coping mechanism involved focusing on the support from those who truly knew him and adhering to advice from PR experts to remain silent, despite the desire to publicly correct inaccuracies. This 'say nothing' approach, though counterintuitive, is often recommended as any public engagement can inadvertently worsen perception.
THE INEVITABLE FUTURE OF CULTURED MEAT
Cultured meat, grown from animal cells in a lab, represents an inevitable revolution in food production. Jurvetson, an investor in Memphis Meats, highlights its immense potential to address significant environmental issues: reducing land use (a third of habitable land is for livestock), minimizing water consumption, and drastically cutting greenhouse gas emissions. The technology involves taking stem cells, growing them on edible scaffolds, and differentiating them into muscle or fat cells, producing indistinguishable meat products. The primary challenge is scaling production to lower costs, which Jurvetson believes is an engineering problem rather than a scientific one. He believes this will lead to a 'moral shift' where humanity collectively condemns animal slaughter once a cost-effective, compromise-free alternative exists.
NURTURING A CHILDLIKE MIND FOR INNOVATION
Jurvetson champions the 'childlike mind' as essential for scientific and engineering breakthroughs. Drawing from his own parenting experiences and insights from 'Scientists in the Crib,' he views infants as natural scientists, constantly forming hypotheses and testing the world through exploration. He encourages nurturing this innate curiosity, emphasizing play (especially with tech-infused toys like Legos and drones) and viewing challenges as opportunities for discovery. This mindset, he argues, combats the 'mental ruts' and 'strictures' fostered by traditional education, allowing individuals to maintain creativity, see novel connections between disparate ideas, and approach problem-solving with open-minded wonder, much like historical figures such as Feynman and Einstein.
THE INTERDISCIPLINARY ROOTS OF BREAKTHROUGHS
A core tenet of innovation, according to Jurvetson, is the 'recombination of prior ideas.' He stresses that the most significant breakthroughs often occur at the intersection of different disciplines, where 'outsiders' bring fresh perspectives to established fields. This 'cross-pollination,' like an ornithologist and physicist discovering DNA's structure, rather than just chemists, is accelerating exponentially due to globalization and the internet. The combinatorial explosion of unique idea pairings, especially as billions more come online through satellite broadband, promises an unprecedented era of innovation. This interdisciplinary approach, combined with a 'childlike mind,' empowers individuals to be 'change agents' and entrepreneurs in times of accelerating technological and societal transformation.
Mentioned in This Episode
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Common Questions
A quantum computer is a device that utilizes phenomena at the edge of the known universe, such as cooling materials to absolute zero, to harness quantum mechanics. Unlike traditional computers that use bits (1 or 0), quantum computers use qubits, which can be 1, 0, or everything in between simultaneously. This allows them to explore immense possibilities and 'jump' to solutions much faster than conventional supercomputers.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
A software company where Steve Jurvetson worked, established by Steve Jobs after leaving Apple.
A company that produces personalized mattresses and adjustable pillows, which Tim Ferriss uses and recommends for improving sleep quality.
A company creating plant-based meat substitutes, known for using plant-based 'heme' to make veggie burgers 'bleed' and taste more like meat.
Where Steve Jurvetson worked as an R&D engineer before co-founding DFJ.
An electronics retail store, mentioned as a place where powerful GPUs could be purchased cheaply.
An aerospace company, mentioned alongside Boeing for developing planes capable of autonomous flight.
The venture capital firm co-founded by Steve Jurvetson, where he led investments in startups later acquired for billions.
A company where the majority of code is now built by computers (neural networks) rather than humans, indicating a significant shift in software development.
A semiconductor company, whose CPUs are contrasted with NVIDIA's GPUs in terms of their computational focus.
A digital payment company co-founded by Elon Musk, demonstrating his ability to found dominant companies in diverse industries.
A professional services network that chose Steve Jurvetson as the 'Venture Capitalist of the Year'.
An aerospace manufacturer and space transport services company co-founded by Elon Musk, also a key investment for Steve Jurvetson, known for its unique mission to colonize Mars.
A fictional or exaggerated dot-com era startup example used by Steve Jurvetson to illustrate the absurdity and lack of focus during the peak of the dot-com bubble.
An aerospace company, mentioned alongside Airbus for developing planes capable of autonomous flight.
A social media platform where Steve Jurvetson is active but considers it an 'addiction du jour'.
A social media platform where Steve Jurvetson can be found at @dfjSteve.
An animation studio, mentioned in the context of Steve Jobs's roles and his focus on design and communication architecture within organizations.
A ride-sharing company, used as an example of a successful investment that was not obviously a good idea at its early stage.
A company that Steve Jurvetson invested in, which produces synthetic meat by growing animal cells in a lab, aiming to eliminate animal slaughter for food.
An agricultural biotechnology corporation, mentioned in the context of information technology driving agricultural competition through 'gene scripts'.
One of the first customers to use GPUs for R&D in modeling how neurons fire, demonstrating the early applications of parallel processing.
A fund formed with the insight that picking winners early and then investing heavily pre-IPO or at IPO can generate significant returns.
A satellite imaging company, which Steve Jurvetson encountered during his rocketry hobby in the Black Rock Desert.
One of the largest meat companies in America, which invested in Memphis Meats, seeking to diversify their supply chain and mitigate risks.
A company known for mushroom coffee and reishi mushroom elixir. Tim Ferriss mentions they created a special custom version of their reishi elixir without sweeteners for him.
A software company known for CAD/CAM software, mentioned in the context of generative design using machine learning.
A fictional or exaggerated dot-com era startup example used by Steve Jurvetson to illustrate the absurdity and lack of uniqueness during the peak of the dot-com bubble.
One of the largest meat companies in America, which invested in Memphis Meats, recognizing the need to diversify their supply chain.
Where Steve Jurvetson worked in product marketing, and later where Steve Jobs made significant contributions.
A company that builds quantum computers; Google's quantum computer, which outperforms their data centers on certain tasks, was bought from D-Wave.
An electric vehicle and clean energy company, a significant investment for Steve Jurvetson and an example of a company with a "Master Plan" pushing for sustainable transport.
A technology company known for its GPUs, which were crucial for the advancement of deep learning due to their parallel processing capabilities.
A solar energy company co-founded by Elon Musk, now part of Tesla, which challenged regulated utilities with distributed solar solutions.
A platform for startups to raise money from angel investors, where an Uber investment opportunity was famously ignored by many.
An online education provider, offering deep learning courses.
The observation that the number of transistors in an integrated circuit doubles about every two years, used as a comparison for the rapid increase in quantum computing power.
A gene-editing technology, mentioned as a capability in synthetic biology that allows manipulation of DNA.
A type of influenza virus, used as an example for the kind of problem quantum chemistry could help solve by rapidly accelerating drug design against such pathogens.
A program at the Aspen Institute, where Steve Jurvetson and Antonio Gracias spent time together.
A concept relating to the utility of large networks and groups, analogous to the combinatorial growth of ideas and innovations due to increased global connectivity.
A quantum algorithm for integer factorization that can break most public-key cryptography, demonstrating the power of quantum computers.
Founder of Facebook, mentioned as an entrepreneur who knows his business's 10-20 year vision and has a clear mission.
A close friend and investor who stood by Elon Musk during Tesla's darkest times, embodying loyalty and support in a crisis.
A leading researcher in AI and deep learning, mentioned as one of the key figures from the 'Canada group' contributing to deep learning R&D.
Creator of Dilbert, known for his perspective on creating unique combinations of skills.
A Serbian-American inventor, electrical engineer, mechanical engineer, and futurist, part of the group of inventors (Edison, Tesla, Marconi) who were active during a period ripe for breakthroughs in electricity and magnetism, illustrating the concept of simultaneous discoveries.
Co-founder of Google, mentioned alongside Larry Page as an entrepreneur with a clear long-term vision.
A leading researcher in AI and deep learning, mentioned as one of the key figures who moved from the 'Canada group' back to the US, contributing to deep learning R&D.
A chemist and X-ray crystallographer whose work was crucial to understanding the structure of DNA, correcting the guest's statement about DNA discoverers not being chemists.
The guest on the podcast, a venture capitalist focused on founder-led, mission-driven companies at the cutting edge of disruptive technology. He has been a founding investor in four public companies and many rapidly growing companies.
A Nobel Prize-winning physicist known for his work in quantum electrodynamics, who also recognized the unique power of quantum computation.
The founder of D-Wave, a company producing quantum computers, who predicted the doubling of qubits every year.
Steve Jurvetson's mentor in the venture capital industry, credited for encouraging big thinking and looking for underestimated market sizes.
Runs Udacity, and is mentioned in context of online deep learning courses.
President of the United States who appointed Steve Jurvetson as a Presidential Ambassador for Global Entrepreneurship in 2016.
Author of 'Abundance', envisioning a future where physical things are so inexpensive that even the poor can live like kings, a perspective Steve Jurvetson references when discussing the rich-poor gap.
A pioneer of theoretical computer science, whose 'Turing machine' concept is referenced to describe simple computational rules.
An Italian inventor and electrical engineer, part of the group of inventors (Edison, Tesla, Marconi) who made breakthroughs in electricity and magnetism, highlighting the combinatorial explosion of ideas.
Co-founder of Apple, who Steve Jurvetson worked with at Apple and NeXT. Jobs is described as marketing-centric with a maniacal attention to design, avoiding meetings, and focusing on creating a powerful organizational culture.
Co-founder of Google, mentioned as an entrepreneur with a clear 10-20 year vision for his business.
A businessman, investor, and vice chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, who was featured in Tim Ferriss's book, 'Tools of Titans'.
An American inventor, part of the group of inventors (Edison, Tesla, Marconi) who were active during a period ripe for breakthroughs in electricity and magnetism, illustrating the concept of simultaneous discoveries.
An example of a wealthy tech entrepreneur who gives back through philanthropy, taking on multi-year quests like eradicating malaria and polio.
Steve Jurvetson's fiancée, who was incredibly supportive during a difficult period of false accusations and media scrutiny.
A mutual friend of Tim Ferriss and Steve Jurvetson, and a previous guest on the Tim Ferriss Show. He recommended Tim Urban's 'The Tail End' and a book on grief and grieving.
A leading researcher in AI and deep learning, mentioned as one of the key figures from the 'Canada group' contributing to deep learning R&D.
A renowned investor, also mentioned for his advice on combining skills to create unique advantages.
An investor from the Rockefeller Group who advised Steve Jurvetson against selling shares, noting that holding onto "winner" companies like Apple would have generated much greater long-term wealth.
A computer scientist and physicist known for his work on cellular automata and the book 'A New Kind of Science'.
Author of 'Out of Control', whose work deeply influenced Steve Jurvetson with its biological metaphors in technology, cellular automata, and the power of evolution.
A physicist from Oxford whose book 'The Fabric of Reality' influenced Steve Jurvetson and is known for his work on quantum mechanics and quantum computers, particularly the 'parallel universes' interpretation.
A writer known for his blog 'Wait But Why', who wrote influential pieces about thinking about time spent with aging parents. He also appeared on Tim Ferriss's podcast.
A pioneering computer scientist and engineer who is credited with naming 'Moore's Law'.
A professor at Stanford, who Steve Jurvetson worked under as a research assistant during his master's program. Hennessy later became a successful entrepreneur and future president of Stanford.
An interviewer whose talk Steve Jurvetson referenced, where he discussed his 'never sell shares' philosophy.
Physicist who famously described quantum mechanics as 'spooky action at a distance' due to phenomena like entanglement.
Founder of SpaceX and Tesla, described by Jurvetson as a physicist turned engineer with deep engineering chops, focused on first principles and executing a master plan. He went 'all in' for his companies, even borrowing $20 million during the 2008 financial crisis.
A software engineer and entrepreneur, mentioned for his insight on layering skills like public speaking to create unique value.
A book by David Deutsch that discusses quantum mechanics and quantum computers, providing a foundational understanding for Steve Jurvetson's venture investments in the space.
A book by Alison Gopnik that focuses on the neuroscience of infants, which Steve Jurvetson read to prepare for parenting and found fascinating for understanding childhood development.
A book by Stephen Wolfram that explores the universe as a computational system, using simple rules like cellular automata to generate complex patterns, influencing Steve Jurvetson's view on engineering modalities.
Tim Ferriss's book where he asked Steve Jurvetson a series of rapid-fire questions, including what he would put on a billboard.
A book by Kevin Kelly that had a profound influence on Steve Jurvetson, fostering his lifelong fascination with biological metaphors in technology, algorithms, and evolution.
A US agency responsible for airport security, which Steve Jurvetson believes could be eliminated through autonomous flight technology.
A financial and business news website, referenced for an article discussing Steve Jurvetson's relationship with Elon Musk and Musk's risk immunity.
The US governmental department responsible for meat inspection; Jurvetson notes that 99% of their inspectors become vegetarian after seeing how meat is processed.
A US regulatory body described as archaic in its regulatory system, slow to transition to personalized medicine.
A NASA center where studies on inducing hibernation in mammals using hydrogen sulfide were conducted, revealing a latent pathway potentially linked to ancient extinction events.
A conservation organization mentioned in the context of de-extinction, particularly the effort to bring back mammoths using advanced biological techniques.
A management consulting firm where Steve Jurvetson spent a short stint.
A business magazine that recognized Steve Jurvetson as one of 'Tech's best venture investors'.
Steve Jurvetson's high school in Dallas, which he credits for incredibly well preparing him for college and enabling him to take many AP units.
The university where Steve Jurvetson completed his electrical engineering degree in two and a half years and pursued master's and PhD studies.
A US government agency, used as an analogy for a potential corporate health plan equivalent where service grants long-term healthcare.
A think tank where Steve Jurvetson explored the radical potential of nanotechnology.
A global nonprofit organization dedicated to leadership and dialogue, hosting the Henry Crown Fellowship Program.
An early web-based email service in which Steve Jurvetson was an early investor. It was initially turned down by 21 VCs.
A peer-to-peer voice-over-IP service which Steve Jurvetson invested in. It was considered a unique idea at the time.
A photo-sharing and hosting service where Steve Jurvetson has some of his older writings.
An online learning platform, mentioned as a resource for deep learning courses.
The website where Steve Jurvetson will be launching and providing information about his new venture fund.
A web browser whose IPO boom changed the landscape for internet investing, shifting venture capital attitudes towards the sector.
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