Key Moments

Stewart Brand | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)

Tim FerrissTim Ferriss
Howto & Style3 min read174 min video
Dec 13, 2017|15,682 views|92|9
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TL;DR

Stewart Brand discusses long-term thinking, de-extinction, environmental pragmatism, and adaptability.

Key Insights

1

The Whole Earth Catalog fostered a generation by offering practical knowledge and inspiring self-reliance.

2

Long-term thinking and responsibility are crucial for addressing complex global issues like climate change.

3

Environmentalism should embrace pragmatism over rigid ideology, incorporating technology and science.

4

De-extinction projects like reviving the woolly mammoth are feasible and could have ecological benefits.

5

Adaptability and a willingness to change one's mind are essential for learning and progress.

6

Focusing on pathways and skill acquisition is more fruitful than solely pursuing defined goals.

THE LEGACY OF THE WHOLE EARTH CATALOG

Stewart Brand reflects on the profound impact of the Whole Earth Catalog, which he founded and edited. It served as a comprehensive guide, influencing a generation by providing practical knowledge and fostering a sense of possibility. Many individuals credit the Catalog with shaping their life's trajectory, seeing it as a catalyst for self-reliance and a broader worldview. Brand notes that the Catalog's enduring appeal lies in its ability to empower readers to explore new possibilities during formative periods of their lives.

THE IMPORTANCE OF LONG-TERM THINKING AND DE-EXTINCTION

As president of The Long Now Foundation, Brand champions long-term thinking, aiming to instill responsibility for the next 10,000 years. This forward-looking perspective is crucial for tackling generational challenges. He leads Revive & Restore, a project focused on de-extinction, exploring the genetic resurrection of species like the passenger pigeon and woolly mammoth. This endeavor, while complex, is seen as a potential avenue for genetic rescue in conservation and could contribute to restoring ecological balance, such as recreating grassland biomes.

EMBRACING ENVIRONMENTAL PRAGMATISM

Brand advocates for 'eco-pragmatism,' urging the environmental movement to discard rigid ideologies and embrace effective solutions. He critiques past stances against genetic engineering, nuclear power, and even cities, which he argues hindered progress on issues like climate change. Instead, he stresses accepting what works, citing the successful reintroduction of species and the development of blight-proof American chestnuts. This pragmatic approach prioritizes demonstrable results over ideological purity, acknowledging that complex systems require careful, iterative adjustments.

THE POWER OF ADAPTABILITY AND CHANGING ONE'S MIND

Drawing from his scientific training, Brand emphasizes that changing one's mind based on new evidence is a strength, not a weakness. He likens opinions to hypotheses that are tested and refined through experience. This adaptability is crucial for navigating complex challenges, whether in science, technology, or personal development. He contrasts this with political discourse, where admitting error can be politically disadvantageous, yet highlights figures like Jerry Brown who demonstrated the power of reasoned persuasion and willingness to evolve viewpoints.

FINITE VS. INFINITE GAMES AND THE FOCUS ON PATHWAYS

Brand introduces the concept of finite and infinite games, drawing from James P. Carse's work. Finite games have defined rules and winners, while infinite games aim for continuous play and improvement. He sees this distinction reflected in civilization's evolution and democratic processes, where rules are constantly examined and refined. This philosophy extends to personal development, where Brand prioritizes acquiring skills and exploring pathways over fixating on specific goals. Accumulating diverse skills allows for unexpected opportunities to emerge, fostering a more adaptable and resilient approach to life and work.

NAVIGATING TECHNOLOGY AND UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES

The notion that 'information wants to be free' is explored in the context of digital distribution, acknowledging the paradox that information also wants to be valuable. Brand discusses his presence at the 'Mother of All Demos,' showcasing early computing innovations like the mouse and hypertext. He also touches on how technology, like CrossFit, can be intensely beneficial but carries risks if pursued with rigid ideology. Ultimately, Brand encourages a welcoming attitude towards unintended consequences, viewing them not just as risks to be feared but as opportunities for learning, adaptation, and unexpected positive outcomes.

Common Questions

Tim Ferriss recalls being fascinated by geodesic domes and explicit anatomical drawings in The Whole Earth Catalog as a child, which had a formative impact on him at a young age, possibly around 9 or 10 years old.

Topics

Mentioned in this video

People
Tim O'Reilly

One of two individuals Kevin Kelly recommended for Tim Ferriss to interview on his podcast.

Aldous Huxley

Author of 'The Doors of Perception', mentioned in the context of psychedelic experiences and spiritual journeys.

Milan Kundera

Author whose autobiographical fiction, particularly 'The Book of Laughter and Forgetting', is read by Tim Ferriss for insights into perception and reality.

Oliver Sacks

Neurologist and author, whose writings in his last year provided insights into aging and selecting problem-solving focus when facing finite time.

Freeman Dyson

Physicist and mathematician, whose writings are praised for explaining how science actually works, with his book 'Infinite in All Directions' being a key recommendation.

Brian Eno

Musician, record producer, and theorist, who developed the 'pace layer diagram of civilization' with Stewart Brand.

Jesse Ausubel

Researcher who gave a Seminar About Long-term Thinking talk on how nature is rebounding.

George Church

Geneticist at Harvard University, collaborating with Revive & Restore on de-extinction projects like the woolly mammoth.

William James

Philosopher whose thoughts on pragmatism are referenced in the context of Stewart Brand's 'eco-pragmatism'.

JC Herz

Author of 'Learning to Breathe Fire', a book about the history and culture of CrossFit.

Buckminster Fuller

An influential figure who posited that seeing Earth as a sphere with limited resources would change human behavior, heavily influencing Stewart Brand's 'Blue Marble' concept and overall philosophy.

Jerry Brown

Former Governor of California, praised by Stewart Brand for his openness to changing his mind and engaging with protesters, serving as an example of an effective politician.

Richard Feynman

One of the great science teachers and scientists, whose books like 'Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!' are recommended for learning scientific thinking.

Kevin Rose

Friend of Tim Ferriss who influenced him to try Peloton due to his noticeable fitness transformation.

Richard Rockefeller

A friend who strongly advocated for the use of MDMA in treating post-traumatic stress disorder.

Marshall McLuhan

A philosopher whose concept that 'the medium is the message' was influential on Stewart Brand and the 1960s generation in understanding technology.

Jared Diamond

Author of 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' and 'Collapse', whose work on civilization and planetary makeup was highly regarded by Stewart Brand.

Craig Venter

Scientist who readily agreed to give a Seminars About Long-term Thinking talk due to his appreciation for The Whole Earth Catalog.

Steve Jobs

Co-founder of Apple, who referenced The Whole Earth Catalog in his famous Stanford commencement speech, influenced by its 'stay hungry, stay foolish' motto.

Peter Drucker

Management consultant and author, whose memoir 'Observations of a Bystander' described Marshall McLuhan and Buckminster Fuller as 'voices in the wilderness'.

Doug Engelbart

Pioneer of human-computer interaction, mentor to Stewart Brand, known for his work on 'Augmented Human Intellect' and the 'Mother of All Demos'.

Pat Brown

Father of Jerry Brown, a political figure, from whom Jerry Brown learned certain aspects of politics.

Stewart Brand

President of the Long Now Foundation, founder of The Whole Earth Catalog, co-founder of WELL and Global Business Network, and author. A multifaceted individual who has influenced many cultural and technological movements.

Matt Wilpers

A Peloton instructor whose 20-minute high-intensity training sessions Tim Ferriss particularly enjoys.

Danny Hillis

Computer scientist and inventor; Stewart Brand mentions him in relation to research that people find comfort in long-term engagement with institutions or species.

Ryan Phelan

Stewart Brand's wife and the head of the Revive & Restore organization, focusing on genetic technology for wildlife conservation.

Steve Wozniak

Co-founder of Apple, who attended the Hackers Conference and contributed to the debate about whether information should be free or expensive.

Edward O. Wilson

Renowned biologist and author of 'Naturalist', recognized for revolutionizing the field of biology multiple times and for his excellent writing.

Ken Kesey

Author of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' and leader of the Merry Pranksters, associated with early psychedelic culture and 'acid tests'.

Al Gore

Former Vice President, who criticized Stewart Brand's views on geoengineering with the quote, 'Brand, you want to experiment with the whole planet? Don't do it.'

James P. Carse

Author of 'Finite and Infinite Games', a book that influenced Stewart Brand's progressive view of games and civilization.

Ian Morris

Scholar who gave a Seminar About Long-term Thinking talk on how the West gained its current global position.

Geoffrey West

Theoretical physicist and author of 'Scale,' who gave a Seminar About Long-term Thinking talk comparing cities and businesses in terms of innovation.

Scott Adams

Creator of Dilbert, who refers to 'systems thinking' instead of 'pathways', focusing on accumulating skills and relationships.

Alan Kay

Computer scientist whose career was redirected after witnessing the 'Mother of All Demos'.

Tom Wolfe

Author of 'The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test,' chronicling the Merry Pranksters' journey with Ken Kesey.

Matt Ridley

Author who gave a Seminar About Long-term Thinking on 'rational optimism'.

Alex Toussaint

A Peloton instructor who is a favorite of Kevin Rose.

John Dewey

Philosopher whose thoughts on pragmatism are referenced in the context of Stewart Brand's 'eco-pragmatism'.

Frederick Spiegelberg

A professor at Stanford who taught a 'very good course on comparative religion' that influenced Stewart Brand.

Kevin Kelly

A mutual friend of Tim Ferriss and Stewart Brand, described by Tim as 'the real-world most interesting man in the world' and a mentor to Stewart Brand.

John Markoff

Author of 'Machines of Loving Grace', who is also writing a biography of Stewart Brand and is currently 'overloaded with material' from Brand's archives.

John von Neumann

Mathematician known for his work in game theory, whose contributions were referenced by Gregory Bateson.

Johan Huizinga

Author of 'Homo Ludens', a book on the role of play in culture.

Jim Gleick

Author of 'Time Travel,' who gave a Seminar About Long-term Thinking talk on time, offering some of the most cogent thinking on the subject.

Bill English

Leading engineer on Doug Engelbart's team at SRI, who developed the mouse and implemented the microwave data capability for the 'Mother of All Demos'.

Gregory Bateson

A psychologist, biologist, and anthropologist who was Stewart Brand's mentor and whose discussion on game theory influenced Brand's 'New Games Tournament'.

Theodore Roosevelt

Former U.S. President, highlighted as a 'most wonderful example' of self-improvement and public service, whose three-volume biography is highly recommended.

Edmund Morris

Author of the three-volume biography of Theodore Roosevelt.

Andy Grove

Former CEO of Intel, whose management approach recognized that incentives often create perverse incentives.

Books
Time Travel

A book by Jim Gleick, recognized for its cogent thinking about time.

Our Bodies, Ourselves

A groundbreaking book on women's health put together by a feminist collective in Boston, featured in The Whole Earth Catalog.

Infinite in All Directions

A book by Freeman Dyson, whose title is endorsed by Stewart Brand as the 'right kind of frame to have in relation to the universe' and for understanding science.

The Book of Laughter and Forgetting

An autobiographical fiction by Milan Kundera, described as a 'tremendous work' that uses hilarity and absurdity to teach about the nature of perception.

Nature

A scientific journal that sometimes moves content out from behind a paywall, which Stewart Brand finds beneficial for science and public understanding.

Finite and Infinite Games

A book mentioned as increasingly relevant to Tim Ferriss, exploring the distinction between games played for a win (finite) and games played to continue the play (infinite).

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

A book by Tom Wolfe that describes the experiences of Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, in which Stewart Brand also appears.

Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!

A biographical book about Richard Feynman, recommended for its insights into scientific thinking and for 'watching him think'.

Media Lab

A book authored by Stewart Brand, likely discussing technological innovation and media.

How Buildings Learn

A book authored by Stewart Brand, exploring how structures adapt and change over time.

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

A famous book authored by Ken Kesey.

Guns, Germs, and Steel

A prominent book by Jared Diamond, mentioned as a significant work that influenced Stewart Brand's understanding of civilization's movement in relation to the planet.

Tribe of Mentors

Tim Ferriss's new book, a collection of short life advice from 130 world-class performers, designed to be a 'choose-your-own-adventure guide' for improving life.

Scale

A book by theoretical physicist Geoffrey West, which discusses how cities become more innovative as they grow, unlike businesses.

Whole Earth Catalog

A publication founded, edited, and published by Stewart Brand, influential for its comprehensive information and DIY spirit, described as 'the Internet before the internet'.

Collapse

Another book by Jared Diamond, noted for its interesting propositions.

Homo Ludens

A book by Johan Huizinga, which discusses the importance of play and games in culture, and is considered a foundational text alongside Carse's 'Finite and Infinite Games'.

Learning to Breathe Fire

A book by JC Herz that tells the story of how CrossFit came about, with its title referring to pushing beyond expectations.

Machines of Loving Grace

A book by John Markoff that spells out the ongoing debate between artificial intelligence and intelligence augmentation.

Whole Earth Discipline

A book by Stewart Brand on the rise of eco-pragmatism, challenging traditional environmentalist views on genetic engineering, nuclear power, and cities.

Science

A scientific journal that sometimes moves content out from behind a paywall, which Stewart Brand finds beneficial for science and public understanding.

Naturalist

A memoir by Edward O. Wilson about his journey to becoming a great biologist, recommended for understanding scientific thinking.

Organizations
Long Now Foundation

An organization established by Stewart Brand to creatively foster long-term thinking and responsibility, known for projects like the 10,000-year clock and the Seminars About Long-term Thinking.

Merry Pranksters

A group led by Ken Kesey, involved in psychedelic experiments and events like the 'Great Bus Race' in New Mexico.

Stanford University

Institution where Stewart Brand was trained in biology and where Steve Jobs delivered his famous commencement speech.

Global Business Network

A scenario planning consultancy co-founded by Stewart Brand.

Harvard University

Institution where geneticist George Church works, collaborating on de-extinction projects.

Friends of the Earth

An environmental organization that, according to Stewart Brand, initiated the negative perception of GMOs.

Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy

Place where Tim Ferriss had his first CrossFit workout.

Revive & Restore

A project led by Stewart Brand and run by his wife Ryan Phelan, aiming to bring back extinct animal species and use genetic technology for wildlife conservation.

Native American Church

A religious organization Stewart Brand formally joined, attending and leading peyote meetings.

US Army

Service branch where Stewart Brand served as an infantry officer and received parachute training.

Stanford Research Institute

Research institute where Doug Engelbart and his team developed 'Augmented Human Intellect' and conducted the 'Mother of All Demos'.

The Interval

A bar in San Francisco associated with the Long Now Foundation, noted as one of the few nonprofits with its own bar.

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