Key Moments
How Rich Barton Built Expedia and Zillow — Audacious Goals, Provocation Marketing, and More
Tim FerrissKey Moments
Rich Barton on building Expedia/Zillow, embracing big swings, provocation marketing, and life balance.
Key Insights
Embrace "audacious goals" and take "big swings," even if they fail, as Microsoft culture under Brad Chase supported innovation.
"Provocation marketing" relies on creating emotionally resonant features that generate conversation, like Zillow's home value estimates.
Prioritize "family and health" as fundamental to a fulfilling life and sustainable productivity, especially during challenging times.
Effective leadership involves trusting and empowering people, fostering successors, and knowing when to "pull the pitcher off the mound."
Meaningful lives are built through "building" and "client-focused" work, not just service provision or abstract strategy.
Naming companies with unique, evocative, and memorable words (often incorporating rare letters like Z, X, Q) is key to brand building.
EMBRACING AUDACIOUS GOALS AND THE POWER OF BIG SWINGS
Rich Barton's journey into entrepreneurship began at Microsoft, where his mentor, Brad Chase, fostered a culture of innovation. Despite a significant early failure with a "DOS for Dummies" bundle project, Chase encouraged Barton to "take big swings." This philosophy of embracing audacious goals and not punishing failure became a cornerstone of Barton's approach, influencing his later ventures. He emphasizes that great organizations need to hire, cultivate, protect, and invest in innovators, shielding them from the 'corporate immune system' that often rejects disruptive ideas.
THE BIRTH AND GROWTH OF EXPEDIA AND A PHILOSOPHY OF 'CLIENT FIRST'
Barton's pivotal move to Microsoft's consumer division, driven by his wife's medical residency, led to the birth of Expedia. His initial idea for a digital travel marketplace, conceived during a product review with Bill Gates, was initially met with skepticism regarding market size. However, demonstrating a tool for travel agents on Prodigy, he envisioned a future where consumers could book travel online, creating a "change the world" opportunity. This client-centric vision, focusing on building something consumers genuinely needed, became the driving force behind Expedia.
SPINNING OUT EXPEDIA AND THE 'HR EXPERIMENT'
Microsoft's decision to spin out Expedia was motivated less by financial value and more by an "HR experiment." As Microsoft grew, Barton recognized that attracting and retaining top talent required offering ambitious individuals opportunities beyond the core business. By spinning out Expedia, Microsoft could provide a career adventure for its high-potential employees, fostering a sense of ownership and reducing the risk of top talent leaving to start companies independently. This strategy aimed to maintain a vibrant internal talent pool while unlocking external opportunities.
PROVOCATION MARKETING AND THE ZILLOW ORIGINS
Barton advocates for "provocation marketing," using unique features to generate attention and emotion. Zillow's iconic home value estimate, visually presented like a stock chart on an aerial view of homes, was a prime example. This "house porn" site, as it was derisively called, intentionally tapped into people's emotional connection to their largest asset. The strategy also involved leveraging data distribution infrastructure, feeding local news outlets with housing data to build brand awareness organically, rather than relying solely on expensive advertising.
NAVIGATING INDUSTRY RESISTANCE AND THE POWER OF 'DON'T PANIC'
Both Expedia and Zillow faced significant resistance from established industries. Barton likens this to Uber's regulatory battles, noting that industries and individuals often dislike change. However, he highlights that activating popular support is crucial. When Zillow's estimated home values drew criticism from real estate professionals, activating the public's love for the site proved effective. His ultimate guiding principle, derived from the movie "Bowfinger," is 'Even though I feel like I might ignite, I probably won't,' and its simpler corollary, 'Don't panic,' reflecting a belief that most challenges are surmountable and fear is often unproductive.
BUILDING A BALANCED LIFE: FAMILY, HEALTH, AND SABBATICALS
A critical turning point for Barton was his wife's high-risk pregnancy, which prompted a reassessment of his life's priorities. He emphasizes that "family and health are essential" and advocates for incorporating regular "sabbaticals" and deliberate disconnection into life. Barton's routine now includes dedicated time for exercise, play, and family, viewing these not as indulgences but as necessary investments for long-term well-being and productivity. This includes activities like road biking in Italy, hot yoga, and snowboarding, all contributing to a sustainable and fulfilling lifestyle.
THE ART OF NAMING AND THE 'HARD WAY' OF BRAND BUILDING
Barton offers a distinct philosophy on company naming, advocating for the "hard way": inventing a new word. While literal names (like Hotels.com) are easy to explain, they lack brand equity. Using existing words with new applications (like Apple) is viable but requires redefining the word. Creating a novel word, though challenging, allows for complete ownership of the brand's meaning. He favors words with rare letters (Z, X, Q), fewer syllables (ideally two), and those that can function as verbs or be good dog names, citing Zillow itself as an example.
LEVERAGE THROUGH PEOPLE AND THE IMPORTANCE OF 'GIVING TO GET'
Barton views leverage primarily through surrounding himself with exceptional people who care about the mission, whether in business or family. He advocates for leaders to empower their teams, foster successors, and trust that "you can be on your surfboard" while your team manages. He also emphasizes the importance of giving back, stating that sitting on boards, while time-consuming, provides invaluable insights and keeps him stimulated within the broader business ecosystem. This "give to get" philosophy fuels continuous learning and cross-pollination of ideas.
THOUGHTFUL HIRING AND EMPATHETIC TERMINATION
When hiring, Barton looks for passion, often revealed in a candidate's stated interests, and encourages leaders to be decisive, firing underperformers quickly with empathy. He believes that releasing someone who isn't a fit is an act of kindness, allowing them to find a more suitable role. The process should be dignified, face-to-face, and framed as a partnership to align interests, ensuring both the individual and the organization move forward positively.
THE JOY OF FICTION AND THE POWER OF DISCONNECTION
Barton is a passionate fiction reader, finding literary escape from the demands of business. Authors like Mark Hellprin, Haruki Murakami, and Ted Chiang provide rich narratives and imaginative worlds that help him "relax his monkey brain." He emphasizes the critical importance of disconnection, whether through extended sabbaticals or digital detoxes, as essential for mental health, creativity, and fostering genuine human connection, as observed during family trips that highlight the beauty of present, engaged interaction.
Mentioned in This Episode
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●Companies
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●Books
●Drugs & Medications
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●People Referenced
Common Questions
Rich Barton wakes up around 6:30 AM, reviews emails and news on his iPad while drinking coffee, and has a smoothie. He then uses a Hyperice Venom device for back therapy before his daily workout.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
A company founded by Rich Barton and Mark Britton that rated attorneys, generating controversy and lawsuits but also publicity.
A company mentioned as an example of successful naming by taking an existing word and giving it a new definition.
A venture capital firm where Rich Barton spent time as a venture partner, gaining insights and stimulating his interest in new ventures.
A company co-founded by Rich Barton and Robert Hohman, which used salary transparency as a provocative marketing feature.
Matt Mullenweg's company, heralded as an early adopter and successful implementer of a distributed workforce model ('Cloud HQ').
A movie co-written by Brian Koppelman, mentioned as part of his creative work.
A TV show co-created by Brian Koppelman, mentioned as part of his creative work.
A palindrome card game mentioned by the host, then discussed by Barton as an example of fun and happiness in disconnection.
A cult classic movie starring Eddie Murphy and Steve Martin, from which Rich Barton draws one of his favorite sayings, 'Even though I feel like I might ignite, I probably won't.'
CTO at Zillow (and formerly at Expedia), who was involved in Zillow's launch and the subsequent server crash.
A former Expedia general counsel who co-founded Avvo with Rich Barton.
Rich Barton's co-founder for Zillow, with whom he brainstormed initial ideas. He also worked with Barton at Expedia and Stanford.
A venture capitalist and board member with whom Rich Barton works, who gave him advice on board selection criteria.
An author whose work, like 'The Paper Menagerie,' blends sci-fi and fantasy, recommended by the host.
CFO at Microsoft who became chairman of Expedia after its spin-out and a mentor to Rich Barton; later on Zillow's board.
Founder of IdeaLab, connected to the early development of advertising models that predated Google's AdWords.
Rich Barton's co-founder at Glassdoor, who was also with him at Expedia.
An author whose books, including 'The Oceans and the Stars' and 'A Winter's Tale,' Rich Barton enjoys for their magical realism and beautiful prose.
Rich Barton's first real boss at Microsoft, who served as a mentor and encouraged big ideas, even funding a failed book project.
Rich Barton's wife, an OBGYN, whose pregnancy influenced his career decisions and who encouraged his family tattoo.
Key corporate development strategist for Barry Diller, credited with the idea to consolidate online travel players, later CEO of Expedia and Uber.
An influential tech journalist described as 'the Oprah of tech' who published Zillow's launch, leading to millions of users.
Zillow's marketing chief, credited with developing the 'provocation marketing' playbook that leveraged housing data for brand building.
A venture capitalist at Benchmark, who Rich Barton got to know, leading to his venture partner role.
An author whom Rich Barton admires and considers a hero, known for 'Snow Crash' and 'Polostump'.
An author whose book 'Lincoln Highway' Rich Barton praised; noted for his background in finance.
Co-creator of 'Billions' and co-writer of 'Rounders,' known for his ability to interview artists and for discovering Tracy Chapman.
An early online service where Rich Barton discovered Easy Saber, inspiring his vision for consumer-facing online travel.
A tool used by travel agents on Prodigy to access airline reservation systems, which Barton demoed to Bill Gates as a world-changing concept.
Rich Barton's personal blog, which he describes as mostly inactive, used to share his thoughts on company naming.
A bestselling book series that Rich Barton attempted to bundle with MS DOS5 upgrades, resulting in a product failure.
A book by Mark Helprin that Rich Barton re-read, describing it as a beautiful story of early 20th-century life.
A book by Kenneth Lin, gifted to the host by Matt Mullenweg, highlighting its blend of sci-fi and fantasy.
Neal Stephenson's latest book, highly recommended by Rich Barton despite some initial difficulty in getting into it.
A novel by Amor Towles, described by Rich Barton as a 'page turner' and beautifully architected.
A book by Mark Helprin, recently gifted by Rich Barton, praised for its beautiful prose and epic storytelling.
A book by Mark Helprin, mentioned by Rich Barton as an example of the author's work.
A book by Mark Helprin, mentioned by Rich Barton as an example of the author's work.
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