How does Seth Godin redefine 'quality'?

Seth Godin suggests that 'quality' often hides perfectionism. He refers to Edwards Deming's definition: 'meets spec.' So, a Toyota Corolla is considered higher quality than a Rolls-Royce from this perspective because it more reliably meets its intended function.

What is the 'magic' in creative work, according to Seth Godin?

Magic, as demonstrated by 'Hamilton' or a Richard Serra sculpture, is the unexpected moment that creates tension and then a profound revelation or change within the audience. It's the moment lights turn on for you, transforming your understanding.

How can creatives overcome the fear of bad writing or 'writer's block'?

Seth Godin, drawing from Isaac Asimov's practice, suggests that 'writer's block' is actually a 'fear of bad writing.' The solution is to merely do the bad writing consistently. If you type for long enough, good writing will eventually emerge, and the subconscious will adapt.

Why does Seth Godin advocate for 'generosity' in creative work?

Generosity means expending emotional energy and labor to help someone else. By shifting the focus from personal ego and potential failure to serving an audience and helping others, the emotional burden of creative work lessens, making it easier to 'merely do the work'.

What does 'process saves us from the poverty of our intentions' mean?

This quote from sculptor Elizabeth King highlights that relying on momentary motivation ('intentions') is unreliable. Instead, committing to a consistent 'process' (e.g., deciding to be a runner and running every day) removes the need for daily negotiation, making it easier to do the work.

How can someone transform an attitude into a skill?

Attitudes like being a good listener or charismatic can be treated as skills. By identifying the specific actions that define these attitudes (e.g., asking follow-up questions, leaving a beat in conversation), one can practice them. Initially, it might feel awkward, but with consistent practice, it becomes natural.

What is Seth Godin's perspective on worry and anxiety?

Seth Godin views anxiety as 'experiencing failure in advance.' He suggests it's a self-serving mechanism focused on maintaining the status quo and seeking reassurance, which is ultimately futile. He advises diverting this attention towards generous acts and focusing on the process.

How do constraints benefit creativity and entrepreneurship?

Constraints act like the 'boards' in a hockey rink – they define the game and provide leverage. Arbitrary limits on projects, resources, or audience free creatives and entrepreneurs from the paradox of infinite choice, allowing them to push boundaries and explore new edges within a defined scope.

What is the 'what would you do if you knew you would fail' question?

This is Seth Godin's reframing of the common 'what would you do if you knew you could not fail?' question. By asking what would be 'worth doing even though it's not going to work,' it encourages people to pursue projects driven by intrinsic value and generosity rather than outcome, which paradoxically increases the likelihood of success.

What is the counter-intuitive approach to learning juggling or swimming?

For juggling, instead of trying to 'catch' (outcome), focus on 'throwing' (process) one ball, then two, by letting them drop. For swimming, similarly, focus on hydrodynamics and body position, not kicking or breathing (which would be the 'catching' or outcome). This focus on the foundational 'throwing' skill allows the 'catching' to take care of itself.

How can one become more creative?

To be more creative, one must produce an enormous number of 'bad ideas' to desensitize themselves to failure. This, combined with 'good taste' (deep domain knowledge and understanding of genre), allows one to create work that resonates with an audience 10 minutes before they realize they want it, pushing the edges of what's expected within a known framework.

Key Moments

Seth Godin on The Game of Life, The Value of Hacks, and Overcoming Anxiety | The Tim Ferriss Show

Tim Ferriss

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Seth Godin discusses "the practice" of creating value, distinguishing "hacks" from "magic," and embracing imperfection.

Key Insights

The term "hack" originally referred to an average horse, implying practical utility rather than exceptional performance.

Quality, as defined by Deming, means meeting specifications; luxury or artistry are different concepts.

Magic in creative work is about creating unexpected moments that transform the audience.

Fear of bad writing or failure can paralyze creatives; the solution is to do the bad work without shipping it.

Constraints are essential for creativity, providing structure and focus rather than limiting possibilities.

Generosity, not just talent or inspiration, is key to sustainable creative work.

Worry and anxiety are forms of premature failure; focus energy on generosity and the act of creation.

Embrace the process ("throwing") rather than fixating on the outcome ("catching") to build resilience.

REDEFINING "HACKS" AND THE PURSUIT OF QUALITY

Seth Godin begins by re-framing the term "hack," tracing its origin to "hackney" horses, which were reliable workhorses, not show ponies. This contrasts with the "magic" of truly creative work. He also clarifies the concept of "quality," distinguishing it from perfectionism and luxury. True quality, rooted in Edward Deming's work, means meeting a set specification reliably, like a Toyota Corolla, which can be a higher quality car than a Rolls-Royce if the specific need is reliable transportation.

THE ESSENCE OF MAGIC AND OVERCOMING FEAR

Godin defines "magic" in creative endeavors as the unexpected, transformative experience a piece of work can provide, akin to a magician's illusion that evokes wonder. He argues that in the modern era, the work left for humans is precisely this creation of magic. He addresses the common fear of "bad writing" or creative failure, suggesting that writer's block is often a misnomer for this fear. The antidote is to produce "bad writing" privately, understanding that consistent effort, as exemplified by Isaac Asimov, allows good writing to emerge.

THE CRITICAL ROLE OF CONSTRAINTS AND GENEROSITY

Contrary to the often-fancied ideal of infinite freedom, Godin emphasizes that constraints are vital for creativity. They provide necessary structure and focus, much like the boards in a hockey rink are essential for the game itself. He uses his own creation of the AltMBA program, built within a tight timeframe and specific parameters, as an example. Generosity is presented as a driving force, shifting the focus from self-gratification to serving others, which makes the creative act easier and more sustainable against the fear of failure.

ATTITUDES AS SKILLS AND THE FUTILITY OF REASSURANCE

Godin posits that attitudes, often seen as innate talents, are in fact learnable skills. Concepts like honesty, diligence, and even charisma can be cultivated through deliberate practice, reframing our potential for growth. He critiques the pursuit of reassurance, labeling anxiety as "experiencing failure in advance." This constant need for validation is futile because it's never enough and distracts from the actual work, unlike focusing on the process and preparing for the possibility of imperfect outcomes with resilience.

THE PRACTICE OF THROWING, NOT CATCHING

Illustrating his points with the analogy of learning to juggle, Godin advocates for "throwing" rather than "catching." This means focusing on the process and the act of creation itself, rather than the immediate outcome or validation. He explains that by mastering the throw (the practice), the catch (the desired result) becomes a natural consequence. This approach builds resilience, enabling individuals to navigate change and uncertainty by engaging with the work itself, not just the potential reward.

CHOOSING YOUR GAME AND SHIFTING PERSPECTIVES

Godin encourages intentionality in choosing the "games" we play in life, distinguishing between culturally sanctioned pursuits often centered on wealth and personal fulfillment. He highlights the danger of a "sinicure"—a position of ease and guaranteed reward—which can lead to creative stagnation. By focusing on the work itself, serving a "smallest viable audience," and embracing the lessons learned from unexpected turns (like Joni Mitchell's artistic evolution), individuals can find deeper meaning and avoid the ego-driven pursuit of external validation.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Supplements

●Products

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

Seth Godin recontextualizes 'hack' from its origins in Hackney, London, as a 'hackney horse' – an average, affordable horse. He defines 'being a hack' as reliably delivering exactly what the customer wants at a decent price, distinguishing it from 'art' or 'magic' which involves generous, unexpected creative work.

Topics

Mindset & Self-Improvement Business & Entrepreneurship Creativity & Media Personal Development Business Strategy Creative Process Quality Control Entrepreneurial Mindset Overcoming Anxiety Constraints In Creativity Learning Methodologies

Mentioned in this video

Software & Apps

This is Seth's Blog

Seth Godin's highly popular daily blog.

Five Bullet Friday

A short email newsletter from Tim Ferriss, sharing cool discoveries and ponderings.

Squidoo

A company Seth Godin started before Pinterest, which he also decided to leave to maintain his preferred way of working.

Mailchimp

Email marketing service, mentioned as something Seth Godin 'could have started' if he was focused on being a business builder.

Tonal.com

The website for Tonal home gym, where listeners can get a discount.

AltaVista

Early internet search engine, mentioned as a predecessor that Google differentiated itself from.

Locations

Hackney

A borough on the outskirts of London where average horses (hacks) were raised.

Buffalo, New York

Seth Godin's hometown, where he grew up with inspiring parents.

London

Mentioned in the etymology of 'hack,' referring to the borough of Hackney.

Utah

The desert location where Seth Godin built the AltMBA in two weeks.

Media

West Side Story

Broadway musical used as a contrast to Hamilton, where the magic wasn't present despite high production quality.

Hamilton

Broadway musical mentioned as an example of 'magic,' changing the audience through its unexpected combination of elements.

God Must Be A Boogeyman

A song from Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, mentioned for its complex musicality, featuring Jaco Pastorius.

Don Juan's Reckless Daughter

Joni Mitchell's album, mentioned as an example of her intentionally shifting her musical style to alienate her previous audience and explore new creative territory.

House of the Rising Sun

A song that Joni Mitchell covered early in her career, which was not well-received.

People

Kevin Kelly

Author and futurist, cited for his concept of '1000 true fans' and the idea that one writes to think.

Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

Tibetan Buddhist master, quoted on the idea of 'nothing to hold on to' as a way to return to the work.

Mikhail Gorbachev

Former Soviet leader, mentioned as one of the many notable figures interviewed by Cal Fussman.

Russian Refuseniks

A group of 18 who attended Thanksgiving at Seth Godin's house, illustrating his parents' inclusive community.

Lin-Manuel Miranda

Creator of Hamilton, praised for his ability to combine genres and create tension, leading to a magical experience for the audience.

Richard Serra

Sculptor whose work (a two-million-pound piece of steel at Dia Beacon) illustrates the experience of 'magic' that transcends a mere description.

Malcolm Gladwell

Author who sent Seth Godin his book 'The Tipping Point' and encouraged Seth to publish his own related work.

Joni Mitchell

Musician whose early work (cover of 'House of the Rising Sun') was not good, but with patience and persistence, she became a huge contributor to music. Later, she intentionally alienated her audience to pursue creative risks.

Seth Godin

Author of 19 international bestsellers, founder of AltMBA and Akimbo Workshops, known for his writing on post-industrial revolution, marketing, quitting, leadership, and changing everything. He emphasizes doing the work and making magic.

Cal Fussman

Esquire writer known for interviewing many famous people, cited for his advice to 'let the silence do the work' in conversations.

Marshall Sahlins

Anthropologist and author of 'Stone Age Economics,' whose work on cavemen's limited work hours and abundant leisure time is discussed.

Bill Boomer

Consultant to the U.S. Olympic swim team, who taught Tim Ferriss to swim with an emphasis on process over outcome.

Earl Stanley Gardner

Prolific mystery novelist who sold a quarter of a billion books, known for his distinct style within the mystery genre and his unique dictation process.

Gary Gilmore

Mass murderer, famously uttered 'Let's do it' before his execution, which is linked to the origin of Nike's 'Just Do It' slogan.

Muhammad Ali

Legendary boxer, mentioned as one of the many notable figures interviewed by Cal Fussman.

David Graeber

Anthropologist and author, who co-wrote a book with Marshall Sahlins and recently passed away.

Agatha Christie

Mystery novelist mentioned in comparison to Earl Stanley Gardner, highlighting that distinct styles can exist within the same genre.

Jaco Pastorius

Legendary fretless bass player, featured on Joni Mitchell's album 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'.

Isaac Asimov

Prolific science fiction author who published 400 books, known for his disciplined writing habit of typing for six hours daily, regardless of the quality, which helped him overcome fear of 'bad writing.'

Elizabeth King

Sculptor whose quote 'Process saves us from the poverty of our intentions' is central to Seth Godin's book, The Practice. She's known for her extraordinary dedication to her work.

Dale Carnegie

Author of 'How to Win Friends and Influence People,' cited as an example of someone who teaches learnable social skills like listening.

Terry Laughlin

Founder of Total Immersion Swimming, who taught Tim Ferriss to swim in his 30s by focusing on hydrodynamics and removing typical swimming assumptions like kicking, rather than conventional methods.

Supplements

Vitamin D

A supplement recommended for immune support, often deficient, and offered as a free bonus with Athletic Greens.

Chaga

Nicknamed 'the king of the mushrooms,' used in Four Sigmatic's decaf tea for immune system support.

Cordyceps

A type of mushroom recommended for endurance, found in Four Sigmatic blends.

Books

Linchpin

One of Seth Godin's international bestselling books, which he initially felt he couldn't surpass.

The 4-Hour Body

A book by Tim Ferriss, mentioned in the context of exercises like chop and lift that can be performed on Tonal.

Permission Marketing

Seth Godin's New York Times bestselling book, which he initially felt he couldn't surpass.

The 4-Hour Chef

Tim Ferriss's book, described as challenging and confusing due to its high 'Tufty density problem' (too much information).

The Practice

Seth Godin's newest book, with the subtitle 'Shipping Creative Work,' which he believes is worthy of being his last book. It emphasizes doing the work and creating joy through creative acts.

The Tipping Point

Malcolm Gladwell's book, whose theme of 'how ideas spread' resonated with Seth Godin and spurred him to write another book.

Purple Cow

One of Seth Godin's international bestselling books, mentioned as an example of creating tension through its title.

Tribes

One of Seth Godin's international bestselling books.

The Dip

One of Seth Godin's international bestselling books.

Stone Age Economics

Marshall Sahlins' breakthrough book from the 1960s, which describes cavemen working only three hours a day and being present.

This Is Marketing

One of Seth Godin's international bestselling books.

Products

Mushroom Coffee

A coffee substitute from Four Sigmatic with zero sugar, zero calories, half the caffeine, and mushroom blends, used by Tim Ferriss for morning routine.

Lion's Mane Coffee

Four Sigmatic's best-selling mushroom coffee, offered with a special discount to podcast listeners.

Toyota Corolla

A car model used to illustrate 'meets spec' quality, more reliable than a Rolls-Royce in that regard.

Organizations

Stanford Business School

Another institution mentioned alongside Harvard for its case study teaching method.

Akimbo Workshops

Online seminars founded by Seth Godin.

The Go-Go's

A band whose documentary revealed they burned out from constant touring, reinforcing the importance of R.E.M.'s constraint to stop touring.

Rolls-Royce

Luxury car brand used in comparison to Toyota Corolla to explain different types of 'quality' – luxury vs. meeting spec.

Harvard Business School

Institution known for its case study method, which uses real-world problems to create tension and facilitate learning.

altMBA

An online seminar founded by Seth Godin, later turned into a B Corp and run by Marie and Alex, focused on creating tension to facilitate learning.

Dia Beacon

Art museum where a Richard Serra sculpture is located.

Stanford University

Where Tim Ferriss took a master's swimming class taught by Bill Boomer.

Companies

Toyota

Japanese automaker used as an example of a product that reliably 'meets spec,' thus demonstrating high quality according to Deming's definition.

Yahoo

Early internet search engine, mentioned as a predecessor that Google differentiated itself from.

Tonal

An intelligent home gym and personal trainer system that uses magnets and electricity to deliver up to 200 pounds of digital resistance, enabling over 150 exercises and eccentric training.

Four Sigmatic

A company producing mushroom coffee and other mushroom blends, including Chaga and Cordyceps, which Tim Ferriss uses in his daily routine for cognitive enhancement, immune support, and endurance.

REI

Retailer mentioned as an example of products that, while not luxury, last a long time.

Athletic Greens

An all-in-one nutritional insurance supplement with 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole-foods sourced ingredients, recommended by Tim Ferriss.

Atlantic Richfield

A gas chain used in a famous Harvard case study, which canceled all its credit cards to become cash-only.

Google

Search engine company used as an example of creative innovation that understood its genre (search engines) but differentiated itself with a simpler interface.

Nike

Brand whose slogan 'Just Do It' is discussed, with an unexpected origin story.

Yoyodyne

One of Seth Godin's early internet companies (1990-1991), which he decided to leave before it grew too large due to personal constraints.

Concepts

Total Immersion Swimming

A swimming method that focuses on hydrodynamics and counter-intuitive techniques to teach swimming, enabling effortless and fatigue-free learning.

Rem

A band mentioned as an example of applying constraints (stopping touring, switching instruments) to create a successful new album.