What led Sam Kass from baseball and history to a culinary career?

Sam Kass always enjoyed cooking as a hobby. His interest in food solidified during college when a friend, a sous-chef, invited him to work in a Chicago restaurant. After graduating, he leveraged an abroad program to work in a Michelin-star restaurant in Vienna, where he received intensive, old-school European culinary training.

What are Sam Kass's key rules for cooking in a high-pressure kitchen?

Sam Kass's primary rules for high-pressure cooking are to stay calm, never serve anything you wouldn't eat yourself, and when things get busy, always take a moment to plan the most efficient way to prepare dishes rather than rushing blindly.

What were the goals and impact of the White House Garden under Michelle Obama?

The White House Garden, the first since Eleanor Roosevelt's Victory Garden, aimed to highlight where food comes from, how it's grown, and the hard work of farmers. It served as a working garden and an educational tool, especially for children, leading to a significant increase in gardening across the U.S. and raising awareness about pollinators and soil health.

Why is soil health important, and what can be done to reverse its depletion?

Soil health is fundamental to a prosperous nation, and its dramatic loss leads to issues like mineral deficiencies in food, water runoff, and algae blooms. Reversing this trend requires better crop rotation, using natural fertilizers, and sustainable farming practices that can also help sequester carbon.

What are Sam Kass's thoughts on meal replacement drinks like Soylent?

Sam Kass appreciates the intention of Soylent to offer a 'perfect meal' but criticizes it for lacking authenticity, flavor, happiness, and joy that real food provides. He sees a limited role for such supplements for the elderly or specific dietary needs, but does not believe it's a suitable replacement for a balanced diet of whole foods.

How do professional chefs use acidity, like lemon juice, differently from home cooks?

Sam Kass notes that professional chefs tend to 'bump up' the acidity level in dishes. When a home cook might think a dish is ready, a professional chef would often add a bit more lemon juice or other acid to enhance the flavor, making everything taste better.

What is an easy yet impressive dish Sam Kass recommends for a home chef?

Sam Kass highly recommends a classic risotto. It uses simple techniques, involves basic ingredients like onion/shallot, Arborio rice, and stock, and can be customized with various additions like seafood or vegetables. Finishing with butter and Parmesan cheese makes it hard to go wrong and looks very fancy.

What advice would Sam Kass give his younger self upon graduating college?

Sam Kass would advise himself to be open to the world, explore, and not worry about having a clear plan. He emphasizes following interests wholeheartedly, as true passion often develops from combining various interests and going all-in, rather than waiting for a singular 'Aha!' moment.

What is Sam Kass's key message for the public regarding food and policy?

Sam Kass urges people to be actively engaged in issues that matter, particularly concerning the food system. He emphasizes making conscious food choices and translating that individual awareness into political action by supporting representatives who care about food policies, as politicians and businesses ultimately follow the lead of engaged citizens.

Key Moments

Sam Kass Interview (Full Episode) | The Tim Ferriss Show (Podcast)

Tim Ferriss

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Oct 26, 2015|3,527 views|22|2

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Sam Kass on food, policy, and finding passion through impactful work.

Key Insights

Transitioned from baseball aspiration to history major, then culinary arts, and finally White House nutrition policy.

Emphasizes simple, well-executed food with authenticity and love over trendy or overly complex dishes.

Advocates for understanding food origins, supporting farmers, and promoting sustainable agriculture, including soil health and bee populations.

Believes passion is cultivated through curiosity, dedication, and combining interests to create impact.

Highlights the importance of engagement in food systems and policy for positive societal change.

Stresses that true nourishment involves flavor, happiness, and joy, not just sustenance.

FROM ATHLETE TO CULINARY EXPLORER

Sam Kass initially pursued professional baseball, but a history major at the University of Chicago led him down an unexpected path. His fascination with food began casually, leading him to work in a Chicago restaurant. This experience, coupled with a transformative period training in a Michelin-star restaurant in Vienna, propelled him into the culinary world. He learned the value of hard work, discipline, and systems under pressure, even enduring a baptism by fire in the demanding Viennese kitchen.

THE OBAMAS AND A RETURN TO POLICY

Kass reconnected with the Obama family through mutual acquaintances, initially helping with food during their early campaigns. This evolved into a significant role in the White House, where he became a senior policy advisor on nutrition. He championed initiatives like the 'Let's Move!' campaign, focusing on public-private partnerships to combat childhood obesity. His work aimed to improve the food system and highlight the importance of healthy eating, earning him recognition as a creative leader.

THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMPLE, AUTHENTIC FOOD

A core tenet of Kass's culinary philosophy is the appreciation of simple, well-executed food that prioritizes authenticity and love. He critiques trends that prioritize aesthetics over taste, advocating for dishes that are both delicious and comforting. His experience in diverse kitchen environments, from tiny Brooklyn spaces to the White House, underscores the ingenuity possible with limited resources and a focus on fundamental cooking principles.

SUSTAINABILITY AND THE FOUNDATION OF SOIL

The conversation delves into critical aspects of sustainable agriculture, emphasizing the foundational importance of soil health. Kass highlights how degraded soil impacts crop quality and contributes to environmental issues like water runoff and algae blooms. He advocates for practices like crop rotation and natural fertilizers, positioning agriculture not just as a challenge but as a potential solution for climate change through carbon sequestration.

CULTIVATING PASSION AND ENGAGEMENT

Kass suggests that passion is not found but cultivated through curiosity, exploration, and deep engagement with subjects that hold interest. He believes that combining diverse interests, such as food, health, sustainability, and policy, can lead to a profound sense of purpose. He urges listeners to be engaged in issues that matter, particularly within the food system, emphasizing that individual choices and political engagement can drive significant change.

THE FUTURE OF NOURISHMENT AND MEAL REPLACEMENTS

Challenging the notion of purely functional meal replacements like Soylent, Kass expresses a desire for nourishment to encompass joy, flavor, and happiness. He acknowledges their potential role as dietary supplements but firmly believes that a future centered on artificial beverages lacks the 'authenticity, flavor, happiness, and joy' that define good food. He champions a return to whole foods, proper cultivation, and supporting those who produce our food.

REFINING PALATE AND THE ART OF COOKING

Developing a refined palate, according to Kass, involves tasting, smelling, and critically observing everything. He also shares practical advice for home cooks, including the importance of adequate pan heat for searing, using knives properly, and understanding the role of acidity in enhancing flavors. Simple dishes like risotto are highlighted as impressive yet achievable, requiring attention to detail and foundational techniques.

BETTER FOOD SYSTEMS AND CONSCIOUS CONSUMPTION

Kass emphasizes that improving our food system requires conscious consumer choices and political engagement. He points out the need for research investment in fruits and vegetables, similar to that in corn and soy, to make healthier options more accessible. He encourages people to prioritize whole fruits and vegetables, whether conventional or organic, over processed 'organic' junk foods, and to be mindful of pesticide use while not succumbing to fear-based messaging.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Products

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Sam Kass's Culinary & Life Principles

Practical takeaways from this episode

Do This

Prioritize calm in high-pressure situations, as 75% of success is maintaining composure.

Serve only food you'd genuinely want to eat, maintaining a high standard.

When busy in the kitchen, pause to plan the most efficient cooking method.

Cook with the season to ensure the best flavor and quality of food.

Thinly slice red onions for salads to avoid an overpowering taste.

Invest in good quality vinegar for delicious and inspiring salads.

Eat fruits and vegetables first and foremost, even conventional over organic junk food.

Drink more water to reduce consumption of sugary beverages and support overall health.

Allow pans to get very hot before searing fish or meat to achieve a good golden-brown color.

For thick cuts of meat, sear on the grill and then finish in the oven for even cooking.

Add a little more acid (like lemon juice) to dishes to bump up the flavor.

Taste everything, breaking down flavors and paying attention to smell and texture to refine your palate.

Be open, curious, and explore the world, going all-in when something genuinely interests you.

Be engaged in issues that matter, such as food systems and politics, to drive positive change.

Avoid This

Don't lose your nerve in high-pressure situations; it causes everything to fall apart quickly.

Don't serve food that looks fancy but tastes bad; prioritize well-executed, authentic food.

Don't drag a knife across the cutting board like a shovel, as it dulls the knife.

Don't put cold liquid into risotto while cooking, as it stops the cooking process and can break down the rice.

Don't be afraid to leave food on the grill or pan longer to get a really dark, flavorful color.

Don't assume meal replacements like Soylent are a solution for genuine nourishment and joy.

Don't feel like a failure if your 'passion' isn't a singular lightning bolt; it often develops from combining interests.

Common Questions

Sam Kass prefers eggs soft, either soft-boiled, over easy, or really soft scrambled. For scrambled eggs, he cooks them quickly in butter and removes them from the pan before they appear fully done, as they will continue to harden on the plate.

Topics

Health & Longevity Nutrition & Diet Mindset & Self-Improvement Culinary Techniques Sustainable Agriculture Food Policy Career Development Gut Health Meditation Food Waste

Mentioned in this video

People

Laurence Roudart

Co-author of 'A History of World Agriculture', a book Sam Kass found highly impactful.

Kelly Starrett

An expert mentioned as also loving Mizzen+Main shirts.

Barack Obama

The former President of the United States, for whom Sam Kass served as a private chef and Senior Policy Advisor for Nutrition.

Michelle Obama

Former First Lady who initiated the White House Garden, which focused on promoting healthy eating, educating children, and highlighting sustainable farming practices.

Chad Harbach

Author of 'The Art of Fielding', a book frequently recommended by Sam Kass.

Yotam Ottolenghi

An incredible chef whose cookbooks, such as 'Plenty' and 'Jerusalem', are simple, delicious, and used by Sam Kass for inspiration.

Sam Kass

The guest on the podcast, a chef and former Senior Policy Advisor for Nutrition at the White House, who served as a private chef for the Obamas.

Marcel Mazoyer

Co-author of 'A History of World Agriculture', a book that profoundly influenced Sam Kass.

Eleanor Roosevelt

Former First Lady, whose Victory Garden during World War II was the last White House garden before the one established by Michelle Obama.

Steve Case

Author of an article called 'The Future is Food' (likely misquoted, 'The Future is Buddhist Food') discussing meal replacements.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Author of 'The Black Swan' and 'Antifragile', mentioned by Tim Ferriss regarding 'epistemological arrogance' in nutrition.

Andrew Zimmern

A chef and television personality who submitted a question regarding sugary drinks and fast food in schools.

Companies

Mizzen+Main

A company that produces athletic, sweat-wicking dress shirts that do not require ironing, favored by Tim Ferriss and Kelly Starrett.

Stumptown Coffee Roasters

A coffee company that Sam Kass enjoys and considers a good cup of coffee.

Blue Bottle Coffee

A coffee company that Sam Kass praises for making a great cup of coffee.

Fast Company

A business magazine that named Sam Kass #11 on its 2011 list of the 100 most creative people.

Gatorade

A low-calorie sports drink allowed in high schools under new food standards, but not middle or lower schools.

Wolffer Estate Vineyard

A vineyard on Long Island that produces a wonderful rosé wine, mentioned by Tim Ferriss.

Books

The 4-Hour Body

A book by Tim Ferriss that became a #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller, for which design work was done through 99designs.

A History of World Agriculture

A book co-authored by Marcel Mazoyer and Laurence Roudart that Sam Kass found transformative, highlighting the impact of simple tools on society.

The Art of Fielding

A novel by Chad Harbach that Sam Kass frequently gifts, noting its themes of life, relationships, and baseball.

The Black Swan

A book by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, cited by Tim Ferriss in the context of 'epistemological arrogance' and the limitations of human knowledge.

Antifragile

A book by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, cited by Tim Ferriss in the context of 'epistemological arrogance' and the limitations of human knowledge.

Plenty

Yotam Ottolenghi's most famous book, praised by Sam Kass for its spectacular and delicious recipes.

The Flavor Bible

A book mentioned by Tim Ferriss as a resource for developing a palate and coming up with unusual flavor combinations, used by many chefs.

Jerusalem

A cookbook by Yotam Ottolenghi, mentioned by Sam Kass as containing spectacular and delicious recipes.

Organizations

New York Times

A major American newspaper, mentioned as a bestseller list for 'The 4-Hour Body'.

University of Chicago

The university where Sam Kass earned a history major and played baseball.

James Beard Foundation

An organization that awards chefs and also focuses on important issues around food, nutrition, health, and sustainability, which presented Sam Kass with a Leadership Award.

MSNBC

A television news channel, mentioned as having aired the documentary 'Just Eat It'.

American Farmland Trust

An organization mentioned as a resource for those interested in engaging with food system issues.

Locations

White House

The official residence and principal workplace of the President of the United States, where Sam Kass worked as a chef and policy advisor, and where the First Lady's Garden was established.

Vienna

The city in Austria where Sam Kass refined his culinary skills at a Michelin-star restaurant after college.

Okinawa

A Japanese island with a village called Ogimi known for the longest median lifespan in the world, where gardening is ubiquitous.

Concepts

Let's Move! campaign

A public health campaign executive directed by Sam Kass with the goal of reducing childhood obesity to 5% by 2030 through private sector partnerships.

Greenhouse gas emissions

A significant environmental challenge that agriculture contributes to, but also has the potential to mitigate through sustainable practices.

Mono-cropping

An agricultural practice where a single crop is grown on the same land year after year, contributing to topsoil depletion.

Microbiome

The community of microorganisms in the gut, which Sam Kass describes as vital for health, immune system, and digestion, and emphasizes the importance of feeding it diversity through high-fiber diets.

Software & Apps

99designs

A graphic design platform used by Tim Ferriss for various projects, including banner ads and book covers, connecting clients with designers worldwide.

Media

Wall Street Journal

A prominent American business-focused newspaper, mentioned as a bestseller list for 'The 4-Hour Body'.

Just Eat It: A Food Waste Story

A documentary film about food waste, where a couple eats only discarded food for six months, highlighted by Sam Kass as very powerful and well-done.

Products

Soylent

A meal replacement drink discussed by Steve Case and criticized by Sam Kass for lacking authenticity, flavor, happiness, and joy.

Kindle

An e-reader device recently purchased by Sam Kass, which he finds helpful for reading on the go.

Breast milk

Mentioned as containing elements that feed the emerging microbiome in infants, crucial for their immune system and overall health.