Key Moments

E54: Spread trading big tech, capital allocation, Zillow's misfire, Progressives suffer losses

All-In PodcastAll-In Podcast
People & Blogs4 min read91 min video
Nov 6, 2021|153,745 views|3,529|506
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TL;DR

The All-In Podcast discusses tech stock strategies, Zillow's iBuying failure, and a "woke backlash" in politics.

Key Insights

1

Spread trading in big tech offers a way to manage risk by simultaneously going long and short different securities.

2

Zillow's iBuying venture failed due to speculative models and an underestimation of operational complexity, leading to significant financial losses.

3

Recent election results in Virginia and New Jersey indicate a "woke backlash" against progressive policies, with voters prioritizing economy, education, and safety.

4

The discussion touches on the challenges and evolving landscape of venture capital, including evergreen funds and decisions on capital distribution.

5

Decentralized Autonomous Organizations (DAOs) are explored as a potential future model for capital allocation, though their practical application is still developing.

6

A scientific breakthrough in converting CO2 into starch offers a potential technological solution for climate change and food security, contrasting with political approaches.

BIG TECH SPREAD TRADING AND MICROSOFT'S POWER

The episode opens with a discussion on "woke capitalism," satirizing corporate intros that include physical descriptions and pronouns, particularly Microsoft's approach. This leads into a conversation about financial strategies, specifically spread trading in big tech. Chamath highlights Google and Microsoft as strong long positions, contrasting them with other big tech companies that could be shorted. The concept of a spread trade is explained as a method to mitigate market risk by betting on the relative performance of two different assets, rather than the absolute movement of the market. This strategy aims to profit from the divergence between the long and short positions, regardless of broader market trends.

VENTURE CAPITAL LOGISTICS AND EVERGREEN FUNDS

David Sacks discusses Bird's public listing and the logistical challenges VCs face with capital allocation, particularly regarding evergreen funds. Sequoia's move to create an evergreen fund is debated, with concerns raised about whether venture capitalists can effectively manage public equities. The conversation explores the trade-offs between distributing capital to Limited Partners (LPs) after a certain lock-up period versus holding onto shares for long-term growth. The difficulty of finding investors who can excel in both private and public markets is a key theme, with Tiger Global cited as an example of an organization that separates these functions.

ZILLOW'S IBuyING MISFIRE

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Zillow's failed iBuying venture. The hosts detail how Zillow, despite having a strong core business and a respected CEO, made critical errors in its expansion into buying and selling homes directly. Key mistakes included underestimating the operational complexity, relying heavily on speculative models rather than market making, and a potentially inflated 'Zestimate' that encouraged overbuying. This led to massive financial losses, a stock price drop, and workforce reductions, serving as a cautionary tale about entering existing markets without a deep understanding of their nuances.

THE "WOKE BACKLASH" AND POLITICAL SHIFTS

The podcast delves into recent election results, particularly in Virginia and New Jersey, framing them as a "woke backlash." Incumbent Democrats lost ground, with Republicans gaining in traditionally blue areas. The hosts argue that voters are not responding to progressive policies and are instead prioritizing economic stability, education, and safety. Examples like the rejection of police defunding proposals in Minneapolis and the election of a Republican city attorney in Seattle are cited. The loss of the Virginia governorship by Terry McAuliffe is attributed to his perceived alignment with progressive ideology, alienating moderate voters.

EDUCATION DEBATES AND EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY

The conversation shifts to the contentious issue of education, particularly concerning curriculum choices and the concept of 'de-tracking.' The debate centers on whether to prioritize equality of opportunity or equality of results. Critics argue that progressive educational philosophies, focused on leveling student performance and social justice, are actually limiting progress and exceptionalism. The importance of school choice as a means to provide opportunity is emphasized, with the argument that current systems trap minority and low-income students in underperforming schools. The perceived disconnect between progressive educational agendas and parental concerns is highlighted as a key factor in recent political shifts.

TECHNOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS FOR CLIMATE CHANGE

A scientific breakthrough in converting carbon dioxide into starch is presented as a highly promising development, offering a technological rather than political solution to climate change. The process, which is significantly more efficient than natural photosynthesis, is detailed, and its potential to address global warming and food security is explored. The hosts contrast this innovation with the perceived ineffectiveness of international climate conferences like COP26. They advocate for investing in such scientific and entrepreneurial endeavors rather than relying on government aid or political agreements, emphasizing the potential for economic returns and tangible progress.

iBuyer Company Margins

Data extracted from this episode

CompanyAverage Margin
OpenDoor10%
Zillow3%

Political Party Distance from Center (Pollster Data)

Data extracted from this episode

YearDemocratic Party PositionRepublican Party Position
1994 (Clinton)56
2004 (Bush)45
2017 (Current)26.5

Common Questions

A spread trade involves simultaneously going long on one security and shorting another well-known security or a basket of comparable securities. This strategy helps manage market risk by betting on the relative outperformance of the long position over the short, rather than the absolute movement of individual stocks. Chamath details a spread trade idea: long Microsoft and Google and short the rest of big tech (Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, IBM).

Topics

Mentioned in this video

Companies
Google

Chamath recommends a spread trade of long Google and Microsoft, and shorting other big tech companies, stating Google is the safest company on the internet and a pure money-making machine due to its platform and payment to Apple for search.

Microsoft

Microsoft received internet backlash for corporate presentations where employees described their physical appearance, pronouns, and ethnicity without explanation, which was later claimed to be for visually impaired people.

Alphabet

Alphabet was an initial partner in funding The Production Board, indicating its support for a long-term, patient capital approach to building companies.

CompuServe

CompuServe is cited as an early company that captured consumer imagination, incentivizing further infrastructure development in the internet's evolution.

Zillow

Zillow's iBuyer program led to a significant misfire, dropping 37% in shares and $9 billion in market cap, after buying homes indiscriminately and acting as a speculator rather than a market maker, cannibalizing its core business.

Multicoin Capital

MultiCoin Capital is mentioned in the context of Vinnie Lingham's discussions about DAOs for early-stage investing following some events related to Solana.

AOL

AOL is cited as a company that captured consumer imagination, enabling further internet development.

Redfin

Redfin is mentioned as an iBuyer company that was more careful and considered in its home buying strategy compared to Zillow.

Apple

Google pays Apple $10 billion to be the default search, protecting Google's position even though Apple is a platform competitor. Apple also faces headwinds with inflation, margins, and supply chain issues.

Facebook

Facebook is recommended for shorting in a spread trade due to regulatory oversight pressure. An earlier spread trade of long Google, short Facebook returned 80-85%.

Sears

Sears is cited as an example of traditional commerce companies that would be part of a basket to short against a long Amazon position in a spread trade.

United Airlines

United Airlines is presented as a potential short candidate against Airbnb in a spread trade, but Chamath argues against it due to the lack of correlation and liquidity compared to big tech.

IBM

IBM is listed as one of the big tech companies recommended for shorting in a spread trade.

Macy's

Macy's is cited as an example of traditional commerce companies that would be part of a basket to short against a long Amazon position in a spread trade.

Kmart

Kmart is cited as an example of traditional commerce companies that would be part of a basket to short against a long Amazon position in a spread trade.

Airbnb

Airbnb is proposed by the host as a potential long candidate for a spread trade against airlines due to its high-margin business model, but Chamath rejects it for being too random and not highly correlated.

Lucid Motors

Lucid is mentioned as a potential long candidate in an auto sector spread trade alongside Tesla and Rivian.

Sutter Hill Ventures

Sutter Hill is cited as one of the few funds that successfully implemented an evergreen fund structure, an idea Chamath considered before starting Social Capital.

Kleiner Perkins

Chamath almost merged Social Capital with Kleiner Perkins, and recalls how legendary investor John Doerr managed his Google and Amazon shares.

Netflix

Netflix is included in the 'rest of big tech' recommended for shorting in a spread trade against Google and Microsoft.

Amazon

Amazon is recommended for shorting in a spread trade due to headwinds related to pricing power and competition. A historical spread trade of long Amazon and short traditional commerce companies was very profitable.

JCPenney

JCPenney is cited as an example of traditional commerce companies that would be part of a basket to short against a long Amazon position in a spread trade.

Salesforce

Slack was acquired by Salesforce as a long-term protective solution to better compete against Microsoft's bundling strategy.

Tesla

Tesla is mentioned as a potential long candidate in an auto sector spread trade, alongside Lucid and Rivian, against traditional auto companies.

Bird

Bird, a company David Sacks invested in since Series A, went public on the NYSE with a $2.4 billion market cap. It pivoted to a fleet manager model making it nearly profitable after a setback during COVID-19 lockdowns.

Allbirds

Allbirds is mentioned as having taken the ticker symbol 'BIRD', which is why Bird the scooter company used 'BRDS.'

Tiger Global Management

Tiger Global is presented as an example of a well-run organization with separate superb investors for public and private equities, highlighting the difficulty of context-switching between the two market types.

The Production Board

David Friedberg setup The Production Board as a startup studio, aiming for a permanent capital structure to build and hold companies long-term, rather than chasing quick exits, initially partnered with Alphabet.

Rivian

Rivian is mentioned as a potential long candidate in an auto sector spread trade alongside Tesla and Lucid.

Robinhood

Robinhood appears to be referred to as 'Switchback' which was the SPAC name for Bird's IPO.

Kraft Ventures

Kraft Ventures, David Sacks' firm, led Bird's Series A round and is now confronting a significant distribution decision after Bird's IPO.

Social Capital

Chamath founded Social Capital and decided against an evergreen fund, finding it easier to wind down and distinguish between his capital and LPs.

Sun Microsystems

Sun Microsystems is cited as an example of a foundational plumbing company from Web 1.0 that built critical infrastructure for the internet.

The Carlyle Group

Glenn Youngkin's background as co-CEO of Carlyle, a successful private equity firm, is highlighted to portray him as a rational, reasonable person, not an extremist.

Cisco

Cisco is cited as an example of a foundational plumbing company from Web 1.0 that built critical infrastructure for the internet.

Yahoo

Yahoo, with its directory-driven business, was unable to compete with Google's technical capital and PageRank invention, serving as a classic example of disruption.

OpenDoor

OpenDoor is highlighted as a successful iBuyer with a distinct software-driven model for accurately forecasting prices and selling assets with defined margins, achieving an average margin of 10% compared to Zillow's 3%.

People
Sergey Brin

Sergey Brin, along with Larry Page, created the first version of the Google search index, leading to Google's dominance in search.

George Floyd

George Floyd's death triggered calls to defund the police, but even in Minneapolis, voters rejected proposals to disband the police, showing a limit to policy extremism.

Elon Musk

Elon Musk publicly offered to sell Tesla stock to solve world hunger if a concrete, credible plan for using $6.8 billion was provided, which did not materialize.

Larry Page

Larry Page, co-founder of Google, is credited with inventing PageRank, which made it impossible for Yahoo to catch up to Google in search technology, showing the power of compounding technical gains.

Donald Trump

Trump's behavioral extremism was repudiated in 2020. The current political shift suggests a repudiation of policy extremism with Trump not as present on social media.

Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi was called out by Abigail Spanberger for the Democratic party's stance on 'defund the police,' indicating internal party tension over progressive policies.

Chase Coleman

Chase Coleman runs the public markets book at Tiger Global, demonstrating the specialization required for public equity investing separate from private investing.

Rich Barton

Rich Barton, CEO of Zillow, is considered a Silicon Valley legend but made big mistakes with the iBuyer program, acting as a speculator rather than a market maker in residential real estate.

Elizabeth Warren

Elizabeth Warren is cited as a progressive figure whose policy extremism is not aligning with the current temperature of America, mirroring Bernie Sanders and AOC.

Randy Weingarten

Randy Weingarten, head of a large teachers' union, campaigned for Terry McAuliffe, which backfired due to public discontent with teachers' unions.

Van Jones

Van Jones, a CNN commentator, exhibited introspection by calling the election results a 'five alarm fire' for Democrats, advising Biden to triangulate against the woke left like Bill Clinton.

Albert Einstein

Einstein is used as an example of an exceptional individual whose potential could be stifled by de-tracking policies in education that aim to level performance rather than foster brilliance.

Patrick Ruffini

Patrick Ruffini, a pollster, created a chart illustrating how the Democratic Party has moved significantly further from the center of the country compared to the Republican Party, driven by its progressive base.

Greta Thunberg

Greta Thunberg's critical comments about COP26 as 'corporate nonsense' are mentioned, contrasting her view with the optimism surrounding the CO2 to starch breakthrough.

Scott Schleifer

Scott Schleifer runs the private markets book at Tiger Global, exemplifying the distinct expertise needed for private equity investing.

Eric Wu

Eric Wu, the CEO and founder of OpenDoor, is described as 'special' for leading a successful business that rapidly innovated in using software to accurately price and sell homes.

John Doerr

John Doerr, a well-known investor, famously never sold his Amazon shares distributed to him, and only sold a handful of Google shares to fund future capital requirements at Kleiner Perkins.

Glenn Youngkin

Glenn Youngkin, a Republican, achieved a major upset victory in the Virginia gubernatorial election, seen as a 'woke lash' against progressive policies, focusing on economy, education, and safety.

Terry McAuliffe

Terry McAuliffe, former Democratic governor of Virginia, lost the gubernatorial election despite Biden winning the state by 10 points. His campaign was hurt by a gaffe saying parents shouldn't tell schools what to teach and aligning with teachers unions.

Ed Durr

Ed Durr, a truck driver in South Jersey, famously defeated Democratic State Senate leader Steve Sweeney after spending only $153 on his campaign, serving as an example of the anti-progressive backlash.

Abigail Spanberger

Abigail Spanberger, a Virginia Democrat, won reelection in a historically blue county that flipped red, and has been outspoken against the 'defund the police' slogan, advocating for moderation in the Democratic party.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

AOC is mentioned as a symbol of behavioral and policy extremism that many voters are rejecting in favor of moderation and centrism.

Bill Clinton

Bill Clinton is cited as an example of a Democratic president who successfully triangulated against the progressive left, a strategy now recommended for Joe Biden.

Sister Souljah

The 'Sister Souljah moment' is evoked, suggesting Biden should publicly distance himself from Bernie Sanders and the progressive left to shift the Democratic party toward the center.

George W. Bush

George W. Bush's presidency is cited in the context of a pollster's chart showing the Republican Party's position relative to the center, indicating their electoral success in the mid-2000s.

Phil Murphy

Phil Murphy, the Democratic governor of New Jersey, barely won reelection by 1.5 points in a state Biden won by 16 points, demonstrating the 'woke lash' against progressive policies, specifically his tax policies.

Mitt Romney

Mitt Romney introduced carbon tariffs to the Senate, which is now a serious consideration for economic incentives in climate change.

Bill Gates

Bill Gates is an investor in The Production Board, sharing its mindset of recycling capital and building long-term value rather than seeking quick exits.

Vinnie Lingham

Vinnie Lingham discussed DAOs for early-stage investing and syndicates, brainstorming ways to decentralize investment decisions.

Joe Biden

Joe Biden's presidency is criticized for governing like Bernie Sanders, leading to a 'woke lash' against Democrats in recent elections. Voters elected him for normalcy, not to be an FDR-like progressive.

Jason Miyares

Jason Miyares, a Hispanic Republican, won the Attorney General position in Virginia as part of a Republican sweep, further demonstrating the shift away from progressive policies.

Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders' influence on the domestic agenda is criticized, with calls for Biden to triangulate against the progressive left to save his presidency and align with voter desire for normalcy.

Eric Adams

Eric Adams, the mayor of Buffalo who was reelected, is cited as an example of a normal, moderate political figure whose success validates the shift away from behavioral and political extremism.

Gavin Newsom

Gavin Newsom's playbook of running against Trump, effective in California, did not work for Democrats in Virginia, indicating a shift in electoral strategy requirements.

Concepts
Web 3.0

Web 3.0 is characterized by decentralization, composability, and democratization/governance (DAOs), with foundational infrastructure like remote procedure calls (RPCs) still needing to be built.

Web 2.0

Web 2.0 is used as a reference model, alongside Web 1.0, to illustrate the need for foundational infrastructure before widespread application development, and where RPCs already existed.

Zestimate

Zestimate, Zillow's home valuation tool, is described as having accuracy as a 'bug' with inflated prices driving traffic, which made it unsuitable as a basis for their iBuying risk assessment and contributed to their failure.

Decentralized Autonomous Organization

DAOs are discussed as a Web3 feature for democratization and governance, particularly in early-stage investing, though their boundaries and practical application for fund management are still being figured out.

Web 1.0

Web 1.0 is used as a reference model for how underlying infrastructure (like Sun Microsystems, Cisco) needed to be built before application-level innovation could flourish.

OSI Reference Model

The OSI reference stack is mentioned as a good reference model for Web 1.0, translating into trillions of dollars of value creation by following its substrates and transitional layers.

1619 Project

The 1619 Project, incorporated into school lesson plans, was a focus of parent anger regarding education in Virginia, contributing to the 'woke lash' against progressive policies.

Kinsley Gaffe

Terry McAuliffe's statement that parents shouldn't tell schools what to teach is described as a 'Kinsley gaffe,' an inadvertent truth that ultimately harmed his campaign.

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