Key Moments

E134: Ukraine counteroffensive, China tensions, COVID Patient Zero, RFK Jr reaction & more

All-In PodcastAll-In Podcast
People & Blogs5 min read94 min video
Jun 24, 2023|329,573 views|5,851|1,128
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TL;DR

Discussion on Ukraine war, China relations, RFK Jr., and startup market trends.

Key Insights

1

Ukraine's counteroffensive has seen minimal gains and significant losses, with Russia's fortified defenses proving effective.

2

A potential peace deal for Ukraine was allegedly rejected by the West, influenced by figures like Boris Johnson.

3

US-China relations remain strained, with Biden's 'dictator' comment undermining diplomatic efforts led by Blinken.

4

RFK Jr.'s candidacy is debated, with supporters highlighting his stance on free speech and critiques of establishment institutions.

5

The secondary market for startup shares is heating up due to significant discounts, signaling a potential market bottom.

6

Ford's $9.2B federal loan for EV battery factories is seen by some as a necessary step for energy independence, despite efficiency concerns.

THE KOCO SUMMIT AND MARKET SENTIMENT

The conversation opens with reflections on the Koco Summit, contrasting its somber mood with the crypto-fueled enthusiasm of previous years. Speakers noted a recognition of market downturns and warned unprofitable tech companies against expecting unrealistic bounces. Larry Summers and others highlighted a persistent chance of a hard economic landing, emphasizing the need for companies to achieve profitability or divest. The difficulty in selling software and the contraction in customer spending were also discussed, pointing to a shift in business psychology driven by Federal Reserve actions.

THE ZUCK VS. ELON SHOWDOWN

A lighthearted segment discusses the potential cage match between Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. While acknowledging Musk's size, the consensus favors Zuckerberg's superior physical conditioning and martial arts training. The discussion humorously weighs Musk's global responsibilities against Zuckerberg's commitment to fitness, ultimately deeming the potential fight a 'dumbest idea ever' but a fascinating spectacle reflecting the tech titans' influence and competitive spirit.

UKRAINE'S FAILING COUNTEROFFENSIVE AND PEACE DEALS

The podcast delves into the Ukraine counteroffensive, characterizing it as underwhelming and a potential 'disaster' after several weeks, with minimal territorial gains and significant losses of equipment and personnel. Russia's defense lines, including extensive minefields and artillery, have proved formidable. The discussion revisits claims of a rejected peace deal allegedly brokered before the war escalated, influenced by former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett and UK's Boris Johnson, suggesting the West may have opted for a prolonged conflict to weaken Russia, a strategy now questioned for its high cost and potential downsides.

US-CHINA RELATIONS AND BIDEN'S GAFFE

Secretary of State Antony Blinken's visit to China aimed to re-establish communication lines, addressing issues like fentanyl and detained Americans. Despite efforts to de-escalate tensions, President Biden's subsequent labeling of Xi Jinping as a 'dictator' at a fundraiser significantly undermined diplomatic progress. This gaffe is seen as undisciplined and counterproductive, complicating Blinken's delicate diplomacy and signaling a potential shift in foreign policy without proper channels. China's readout of the meeting emphasized the lowest US-China relations, underscoring the deep-seated mistrust.

RFK JR.'S CANDIDACY AND MEDIA CRITICISM

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s presidential run is a focal point, with a critique of media framing him solely as an 'anti-vaxxer.' Supporters argue he brings nuanced perspectives on free speech, civil liberties, war and peace, and critiques of the military-industrial complex. The podcast hosts, while not fully endorsing him, defend the importance of robust debate and highlight RFK Jr.'s alignment with certain key issues. The role of pharmaceutical advertising in shaping media narratives and the COVID origins discussion are also linked to the broader critique of establishment institutions.

THE SECONDARY STARTUP SHARE MARKET

There's significant activity in the secondary market for private startup shares, with valuations seeing substantial discounts (around 61% median). Venture capital firms and crossover investors are actively buying these shares, signaling a potential market bottom. This trend reflects a necessary repricing of the frothy valuations from recent years. While many 'zombie unicorns' may disappear, viable companies are becoming attractive at lower prices, offering opportunities for disciplined investors, though many sellers are still asking for prices higher than actual transaction clearing points.

FORD'S EV BATTERY LOAN AND INDUSTRIAL POLICY

Ford's $9.2 billion federal loan for EV battery factories is discussed as part of a push for energy independence and domestic manufacturing. While lauded by some as a necessary use of government balance sheets to shape incentives for capitalism and national security, others question the efficiency (cost per job) and the principle of government intervention in industrial policy. The debate touches on whether such loans should be politically motivated and the potential for waste, contrasting it with the massive spending on wars and the need for strategic investments in critical supply chains like chips and batteries.

MANUFACTURING, SUPPLY CHAINS, AND GLOBAL ALLIANCES

The discussion highlights the hollowing out of US manufacturing and the critical importance of domestic supply chains, particularly for chips and batteries. Concerns are raised about the growing alliance between China, Russia, and Iran, posing a formidable geopolitical challenge. The podcast explores the idea of leveraging government capital for strategic industries, though debates persist on efficiency and potential political influence. There's a general agreement that strategic industrial policy, despite its potential flaws, might be necessary in the face of great power competition and the need for energy and supply chain independence.

TAIWAN'S VOLATILE FUTURE AND AMERICAN POLICY

The geopolitical situation surrounding Taiwan is examined, with potential shifts in its political landscape and US policy. The possibility of a pro-China party winning the upcoming election is noted, influenced by the outcome of the Ukraine war. The US's ambiguous stance on Taiwan, coupled with efforts to rebuild domestic chip manufacturing, suggests a strategic hedging. Warren Buffett's divestment from TSMC is seen as a signal of reduced confidence in Taiwan's security, while the US maintains a policy of preserving the status quo while diversifying its supply chains, aiming to reduce reliance on the island.

THE EVOLUTION OF MEDIA and DEBATE

The podcast concludes by reflecting on the changing media landscape and the importance of open debate. The hosts push back against accusations of biased political promotion, emphasizing their commitment to fostering discussion on critical issues. They argue that challenging the establishment and exploring controversial topics, even those initially dismissed as conspiracy theories, is vital. The financing of media by large corporations, particularly pharmaceutical companies, is cited as a potential conflict of interest that impedes independent journalism and the pursuit of truth, highlighting a growing mistrust in traditional media narratives.

Unicorn Company Categories and Expected Outcomes

Data extracted from this episode

CategoryEstimated PercentageOutlook / Characteristics
Zombie Corns30-40%Don't have product-market fit, will disappear or sell off talent (recouping 30-40% of pref stack)
Overpriced Viable Companies40%Have a business but were incorrectly priced, will be marked down 50-80%
Robust Growth CompaniesLess than 10%Grown into or within 10-15% of prior valuations, potentially headed for an up round

Common Questions

Unprofitable tech companies in public markets are down 64% from their peak. In private markets, startup shares are trading at a median discount of 61% compared to their latest funding rounds, indicating a significant repricing is underway with many 'unicorns' likely to face down rounds or disappear.

Topics

Mentioned in this video

People
Mark Zuckerberg

CEO of Meta, who is in 'tremendous shape' and actively trains in mixed martial arts and Jiu-Jitsu, leading to discussions about a potential cage match with Elon Musk.

Henry Kissinger

Quoted as saying it's dangerous to be an American enemy but fatal to be an American friend, applied to Taiwan's precarious position as an American proxy.

Ben Hodges

A former general who predicted the Ukrainian counter-offensive would be highly successful.

Jack Dorsey

Co-founder of Twitter, mentioned as likely supporting RFK Jr. due to shared views on war, peace, and free speech, not for political 'bank shot' reasons.

Michael Shellenberger

A journalist who reported that COVID Patient Zero was a researcher at the Wuhan lab, a finding picked up by the Wall Street Journal and seen as proving a 'conspiracy theory' true.

Carson Block

An investor who jumped into a Twitter debate about comparisons versus benchmarks in relation to Warren Buffett, prompting a host to admit the interaction was 'trolling the mids'.

Billy McFarland

Founder of the Fyre Festival, humorously referenced by David Sacks due to the notoriously bad food served at the Cohéstu conference.

Volodymyr Zelensky

President of Ukraine, who allegedly accepted Boris Johnson's offer to pressure Putin rather than make peace, a decision later viewed as a disaster.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

A presidential candidate whose views on free speech, civil liberties, peace, border security, and COVID-19 policies are supported by some hosts, despite criticisms from figures like Matt Yglesias.

Antony Blinken

US Secretary of State, who recently visited China aiming to improve communication and address issues like fentanyl and detained Americans.

Xi Jinping

President of China, referred to as a 'dictator' by President Biden, causing diplomatic offense after Secretary Blinken's efforts to stabilize US-China relations.

Anthony Fauci

Former Director of NIAID, criticized for funding gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab via EcoHealth Alliance, and for suppressing the lab leak truth to protect his career.

Sam Altman

Mentioned as a prominent figure who might be the 'next SBF' at the Cohéstu conference, referring to the level of attention and influence.

Elon Musk

CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, involved in a potential cage match with Mark Zuckerberg. Described as a 'big guy' but not in the same shape as Zuckerberg, and has a past neck injury.

Ron DeSantis

Governor of Florida; this group has hosted dinners for him, indicating a broad engagement with political figures across the spectrum.

Vladimir Putin

President of Russia, who publicly displayed a document he claimed was a preliminary peace agreement with Ukraine that was later rejected by the West.

Ro Khanna

US Representative; this group has hosted dinners for him, illustrating their willingness to engage with diverse political figures.

Hunter Biden

The son of President Joe Biden, mentioned in the context of being protected from legal consequences.

David Petraeus

A former general who, along with Ben Hodges, predicted a highly successful Ukrainian counter-offensive.

Naftali Bennett

Former Prime Minister of Israel, who corroborated the existence of a peace deal outline between Russia and Ukraine that was ultimately rejected by the West.

Rand Paul

US Senator, who, despite his political differences with Jon Stewart, agreed on the Wuhan lab leak theory as the origin of COVID-19.

Sam Bankman-Fried

Founder of FTX, mentioned in the prior year's Cohéstu summit as being bullish and optimistic, spraying money around, and acquiring companies. His current legal troubles are referenced.

Boris Johnson

Former UK Prime Minister, who allegedly traveled to Kyiv and dissuaded Ukraine from signing a peace deal with Russia, advocating for continued pressure on Putin.

Fiona Hill

A Russia Hawk, described as neocon adjacent, who also stated that a peace deal for the Ukraine war was available but the West did not want it.

Lloyd Austin

US Secretary of Defense, who stated that the US purpose in the Russia-Ukraine war was to weaken Russia.

Warren Buffett

An investor who bought Japanese trading companies and sold his position in TSMC, indicating a clinical assessment of Taiwan's geopolitical risk and the unlikelihood of a US land war over it.

Donald Trump

Former US President, mentioned in the context of accusations that supporting RFK Jr. is a 'bank shot' to help his re-election prospects, which the hosts deny.

Jigar Shah

Director of the DOE Loan Programs Office, who described the lending moves as a way to onshore and reshore manufacturing, focusing on supply chain localization rather than innovation.

Larry Summers

An economist who was present at the Cohéstu conference and was among those who predicted a hard landing for the economy in Q1, and now a 30% chance for Q4/Q1.

Jim Cramer

A CNBC personality, mentioned as someone who frequently discusses the 'Magnificent Seven' stocks.

Joe Biden

US President, criticized for calling Xi Jinping a 'dictator' during a fundraiser, undermining Secretary Blinken's diplomatic efforts in China.

Joe Rogan

Host of a popular podcast, where RFK Jr. discussed his views, contributing to 'millions of links and page views' and enabling listeners to form their own conclusions.

Jon Stewart

Comedian and TV host, who, along with Rand Paul, advocated for the Wuhan lab leak theory, demonstrating an unusual bipartisan consensus.

Wally Adeyemo

Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, met with battery and chip founders in Silicon Valley, emphasizing public-private partnerships for onshoring national interests.

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan

President of Turkey, who supervised a meeting between Russian and Ukrainian delegations in Istanbul where a peace deal was discussed.

Matt Yglesias

A journalist criticized for cynically suggesting that the Ukraine war is good for NATO because it trades Ukrainian lives and NATO equipment for Russian equipment and lives.

Wang Yi

Chinese Foreign Minister, with whom Secretary Blinken met for seven hours during his diplomatic trip to China.

Joe Manchin

US Senator; this group has hosted dinners for him, demonstrating an openness to different political perspectives.

Jordan Peterson

A public intellectual and podcaster, whose platform has hosted RFK Jr., contributing to widespread discussion of his ideas.

Lee Harvey Oswald

The alleged assassin of JFK, whose actions alone are doubted by a majority of the American public, according to RFK Jr.

Locations
Iran

A country that has formed a de facto alliance with China and Russia, sharing equipment (e.g., producing drones for Russia and receiving advanced fighter jets).

Iraq

One of the countries where the US engaged in wars since 9/11, estimated to have contributed to 3-4 million deaths across multiple conflicts.

China

A key player in global geopolitics, forming a de facto alliance with Russia and Iran, and being the focus of Secretary Blinken's recent diplomatic trip.

Singapore

A destination for people and capital moving out of Hong Kong during its handover, used as a potential parallel for Taiwan's future.

Pakistan

One of the countries where the US engaged in wars since 9/11, estimated to have contributed to 3-4 million deaths across multiple conflicts.

Saudi Arabia

Mentioned as a country showing progress in engagement (e.g., bringing movies back), serving as an example of successful diplomatic efforts.

United Arab Emirates

Mentioned as a region where the US is doing a good job of engaging, fostering positive relationships, contrasting with more conflicted areas.

Japan

The country where Warren Buffett made significant investments in five trading companies, viewed as a strategy to de-lever from China.

Soviet Union

Used as a historical comparison for an adversary, noting that its economy was never more than one-third the size of the US economy, unlike China's today.

Taiwan

A critical point of geopolitical tension between the US and China. US policy on Taiwan, including non-support for independence, is discussed.

Cuba

Discussed in relation to China's alleged plans for an intelligence outpost and troop training, which would violate the Monroe Doctrine and be a significant US security concern.

Germany

Mentioned in the context of energy independence; if Germany had kept its nuclear power running and not relied on Nord Stream, it would be in a different geopolitical situation.

Afghanistan

One of the countries where the US engaged in wars since 9/11, estimated to have contributed to 3-4 million deaths across multiple conflicts.

Milan

Chamath Palihapitiya's summer location, where he gets his hair cut by a stylist named Coppola, featuring a 'hair fluffer' service.

Hong Kong

Referenced as an example where people voted with their feet and dollars, relocating to Singapore and UAE during the handover, similar to what may happen in Taiwan.

Organizations
Fox News

A media outlet that, along with others, reportedly sensationalized RFK Jr.'s comments about taking precautions against assassination, implying he thought the CIA would kill him.

Andreessen Horowitz

A venture capital firm reportedly actively buying shares in secondary markets.

Military-industrial complex

Criticized for potentially ripping off the Pentagon, leading to the US running out of artillery shells despite a large defense budget.

Wuhan Institute of Virology

The lab where COVID Patient Zero was allegedly a researcher performing gain-of-function research, strongly implying it was the source of the pandemic.

EcoHealth Alliance

An organization through which Fauci allegedly funded gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab that could have led to the COVID-19 pandemic.

FDA

Praised for generally doing a great job but criticized for allowing the COVID-19 vaccine to be mislabeled, which contributed to public mistrust.

Boston Globe

Known for its investigative journalism on the Catholic Church sex scandal, cited as an example of media holding power accountable.

New York Times

Cited for various investigative pieces, including exposing predatory practices in the NYC taxi industry and predatory loans, while also being criticized for 'carrying water' for Fauci and Big Pharma during COVID-19.

NATO

Its equipment (Leopard tanks, Bradley vehicles) is being used by Ukraine in the counter-offensive. Its 'open door policy' was a point of contention in pre-war negotiations.

Central Intelligence Agency

Mentioned in the context of RFK Jr.'s concerns about assassination risks, and historical allegations of its involvement in the Kennedy assassinations.

US Department of Energy

Its Loan Programs Office (LPO) issued a $9.2 billion loan to Ford for EV battery factories, part of a $400 billion lending program for strategic domestic industries.

Federal Reserve

Its actions on interest rates are discussed as significantly influencing buying behavior, business outlook, and company spending decisions, beyond just valuations and capital markets.

The New Yorker

An example of a publication that supported investigative journalism, specifically regarding Abu Ghraib, contrasting with current mainstream media trends.

Silicon Valley Bank

Used as an example of a venture debt provider, suggesting the government could have taken warrants on Tesla's IPO similar to how SVB would structure deals.

Companies
Tiger Global Management

An investment firm that tried to sell bundles of startup shares in secondary markets but eventually allowed individual bids due to lack of buyers for bundles.

Forge Global Holdings

A secondary market platform that reported startup shares trading at a median discount of 61% compared to their latest funding rounds.

NVIDIA

Its chips were bought by ByteDance for a billion dollars, illustrating continued technological interdependence between US and Chinese companies.

Stripe

A private company whose shares are being traded in secondary markets due to employees or early investors seeking liquidity, with reported markdowns.

Rivian

An electric vehicle manufacturer whose quality surprised a host, indicating a viable alternative to Tesla for consumers seeking other brands.

Netflix

A high-profile person working at Netflix, who is a fan of the podcast, provides feedback on the show's format, endorsing its current mix of business, markets, and politics.

Pitchbook

A venture capital and private equity data provider, reported that Tiger Global attempted to sell bundles of startup shares but then allowed per-company bidding.

Solyndra

A US solar company that received a DOE loan in 2010 but eventually went bankrupt, serving as a cautionary tale against government industrial policy.

Magnificent Seven

Refers to a group of highly profitable tech companies (Meta, Tesla, NVIDIA, Amazon, Alphabet, Microsoft, Apple) that are driving market gains, contrasted with unprofitable tech startups.

ByteDance

Mentioned as having bought a billion dollars worth of NVIDIA chips, highlighting the intertwined global economy despite geopolitical tensions.

Accel

A venture capital firm reportedly using secondary markets to increase stakes in existing investments.

Kleiner Perkins

A venture capital firm reportedly using secondary markets to increase stakes in existing investments.

Motors

Expected to follow Ford's lead in building EV battery factories with government support, as part of the broader push for domestic EV manufacturing.

Reddit

A private company with shares floating in secondary markets, accessible to investors looking to buy from previous employees or investors.

Bain Capital

A private equity firm reportedly using secondary markets to increase stakes in existing investments.

A123 Systems

A battery company that received a DOE loan in 2010 and eventually went bankrupt, later bought by a Chinese company, used as an example of failed industrial policy.

Twitter

Under Elon Musk's leadership, it is described as having 75-80% of its staff gone, but with product velocity 'on fire', suggesting a leaner, more efficient operation.

Uber Technologies

Mentioned as a company that CNN and the New York Times were attacking at the same time the Times was exposing predatory loans, hinting at hypocrisy.

Coppola

A hair salon in Milan, where Chamath gets his hair cut. It has a hierarchical structure among hairdressers and offers a 'hair fluffer' service.

TSMC

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, whose criticality to the US may diminish as new chip fabrication plants are built in Arizona and other places.

Altimeter Capital

Brad Gerstner's investment firm, actively searching for deals in secondary markets but waiting for lower prices before purchasing.

Canva

A prominent private company that has seen its valuation repriced downwards (30-50%), reflecting the broader market correction for 'unicorns'.

Tesla

Received a $465 million DOE loan in 2010 and successfully paid it back, contrasting with Solyndra and A123 Systems, although some argue it was a 'fluke' success.

Bessemer Venture Partners

A venture capital firm reportedly using secondary markets to increase stakes in existing investments.

SK Group

A South Korean conglomerate that is partnering with Ford to build EV battery factories in the US, bringing its manufacturing know-how domestically.

Bloomberg L.P.

A financial news and data company, cited for its report on startup shares trading at significant discounts in secondary markets.

Ford Motor Company

Issued a $9.2 billion loan from the US Department of Energy to build three EV battery factories, part of an industrial policy aimed at reshoring manufacturing and achieving energy independence.

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