Climate Change Debate: Bjørn Lomborg and Andrew Revkin | Lex Fridman Podcast #339

Used as an example for the challenge of decarbonizing existing infrastructure, with 75% of its 2050 buildings already standing, requiring extensive retrofitting.

A gene-editing technology discussed for its incredible capabilities in altering nature, raising ethical questions and debates between the African Union and the European Union regarding its application, such as eradicating mosquito species.

A documentary that explored the forces allegedly suppressing the development of electric vehicles, contrasting with the current electric car boom.

A popular game on Facebook, mentioned as an example of global digital connectivity, where children in Istanbul slums were playing it, similar to how kids in developed countries did.

A movie by Adam McKay discussed for its portrayal of a 'knee-list crowd' that becomes paralyzed by the overwhelming scale of a catastrophic threat, paralleling how some react to climate change alarmism.

A drilling technology that made natural gas abundant and cheap, leading the U.S. to switch from coal to gas for power generation. This significantly reduced carbon emissions at low cost, though it has its own environmental problems.

A field of science that studies past hurricane activity by examining geological records (like layers of sand in lagoons), providing a long-term historical context for storm frequency and intensity.

A campaign figure representing fire prevention, whose message to suppress all fires for 100 years inadvertently led to an accumulation of fuel in landscapes naturally evolved to burn, contributing to severe wildfires.

Cited for its historical engineering feat in the 1850s, where blocks of the city were physically raised one to two feet to improve sanitation, demonstrating human ingenuity in responding to urban challenges.

A major infectious disease killer (1.5 million annually), highlighted as an incredibly cost-effective global health issue to solve through medication and adherence incentives.

Proposed advanced nuclear power technology, characterized by modular design for mass production, passive safety, and reduced proliferation risk. It's envisioned as a potentially cheaper, cleaner alternative to fossil fuels.

A concept, particularly advocated by the European Union, that suggests action should be taken to prevent potential harm even if scientific understanding of the risk is incomplete, often applied to technologies like CRISPR.

The physical process by which greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere trap heat, leading to global warming. It was a key term in early discussions of climate change.

The current geological epoch that began approximately 11,700 years ago after the last ice age, preceding the proposed Anthropocene.

An economic concept referring to how past decisions or existing systems greatly constrain future options. It applies to energy infrastructure, car fleets, and even political systems that resist swift transitions, like those needed for climate action.

The current geological epoch, proposed to be characterized by the significant impact of human activities on Earth's geology and ecosystems. Andrew Revkin played a journalistic role in popularizing this idea.

A global agreement on climate change, mentioned as a significant international effort. However, its real-world impact on emissions reductions thus far has been minimal, accordings to UN reports.

A recent U.S. legislation package, noted for allocating $370 billion towards climate initiatives. Its effectiveness is debated in terms of real-world impact vs. model assumptions.

U.S. legislation that led to cleanups of air pollution, which inadvertently contributed to the end of a 'hurricane drought' in the Atlantic by reducing smog that once stifled storm formation.

A physicist at Princeton University who believes carbon dioxide is beneficial, a perspective mentioned as being at another end of climate views. He was considered for a science advisor role under Trump.

A researcher at Columbia University who runs the 'Difficult Conversations Laboratory,' focusing on psychology and conflict resolution. He advocates for 'cooperation' over 'agreement' in contentious issues like climate change.

A talented journalist at CNN from Oklahoma, who explored climate skepticism in Woodward County, Oklahoma, demonstrating how local priorities (energy independence) can align with climate-friendly actions for different reasons.

Former U.S. President, who took credit for emissions reductions due to the shift from coal to natural gas (enabled by fracking under previous administrations). His administration also focused on sectoral climate efforts.

A young climate activist, whose alarmist message is acknowledged as understandable given the narrative of impending doom. However, Lomborg believes her approach, while raising awareness, also hinders constructive policy discussions.

A critic of Bjørn Lomborg, who accuses him of cherry-picking models and ignoring fossil fuel subsidies when calculating the costs of climate action. Lomborg defends his methodology by stating he averages models.

Author of 'The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels' and 'Fossil Future,' who argues for the continued use of fossil fuels due to their benefits for human flourishing. His view highlights the essential role of fossil fuels in modern society and the need for affordable energy.

A member of The Beatles, who organized "A Concert for Bangladesh" in the 1970s to raise funds after a devastating cyclone, highlighting a historical tragedy that now sees much lower fatalities due to improved resilience.

A famed British scientist and physicist known for his focus on existential risk. He participated in a meeting at the Vatican on sustainable humanity.

Advocates for fourth-generation nuclear power as a key innovation. He also invests in a broad portfolio of energy solutions, recognizing the need for both large-scale and distributed innovations.

Former U.S. Vice President, who stimulated early energy task force efforts (2001) that inadvertently led to increased fracking and the shift from coal to natural gas.

A prominent American climate scientist whose dramatic testimony in the Senate committee in 1988 helped stimulate early public attention and reporting on global warming and the greenhouse effect.

A climate scientist known for his 'hockey stick' graph illustrating long-term temperature records. He is noted as an activist who sits at the 'far end of the spectrum' and has been a target of political attacks.

A physicist and former Undersecretary for Science in the Obama administration, who authored a bestseller expressing skepticism about climate alarmism. He's mentioned as a brilliant physicist on the 'end of skepticism' for climate views.

Founder of Tesla, credited with advancing the electric car revolution and stimulating significant R&D in the automotive industry.

A social scientist at UC Irvine, who in 2006, helped Andrew Revkin understand the social factors influencing people's political views, explaining that people prioritize issues that are 'soon, salient, and certain,' which climate change often isn't.

An American naturalist, essayist, poet, and philosopher. His quote, 'Heaven is under our feet as well as over our heads,' emphasizes finding profound beauty and meaning in the immediate environment.

A highly experienced hurricane and climate scientist at MIT, whose research with colleagues identified a 'hurricane drought' in the Atlantic from the 70s to the mid-90s, linked to air pollution in Europe.

President of the Copenhagen Consensus Center and author of 'False Alarm,' 'Cool It,' and 'The Skeptical Environmentalist.' He advocates for a nuanced approach to climate change, emphasizing cost-benefit analysis and prioritizing basic global issues like poverty and disease.

A respected journalist known for writing about global environmental change and risk for over 30 years, including two decades at The New York Times. He emphasizes understanding human vulnerability to climate hazards and the complexities beyond simple CO2 reduction.

A scientist who published research suggesting that the potential rapid sea level rise from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet's sudden collapse might be a more progressive and self-limiting phenomenon than initially feared.

A scientist credited with cracking the human genome in 2000, who proposed genetically modifying algae to soak up CO2 and sunlight to produce oil, effectively creating a self-sustaining 'Saudi Arabia on the ocean surface.'

A figure from Texas credited with pioneering the technology of fracking in the 60s and 70s, leading to significant changes in U.S. energy production.

An author whose 'Modest Proposal' (satirically suggesting the Irish eat their children to alleviate poverty) is referenced to highlight that cost-benefit analysis alone isn't enough; moral complexity must also be considered.

Former U.S. Vice President, whose film 'An Inconvenient Truth' is mentioned as a catalyst for increased awareness and politicization of climate change in 2006.

A prominent researcher of climate risk and policy at UC Boulder, whose career track was reportedly hampered due to his message being 'off the path' of the mainstream climate narrative.

A climate scientist at Florida Gulf Coast University who conducts paleo tempestology research in Fort Myers, revealing a thousand-year record of past hurricanes and the region's historical vulnerability.

Former U.S. President, mentioned in the context of considering Will Happer as his science advisor. His presidency is part of the discussion on political impact on climate policy.

A journalist and author, quoted for his view that democracy is not about everyone agreeing, but about different people disagreeing while still cooperating on shared actions.

A book by Bjørn Lomborg, part of his work advocating for a more pragmatic and efficient approach to global environmental challenges.

A book by Bjørn Lomborg. This book challenges prevailing environmental concerns by presenting data and economic arguments for prioritizing issues.

A book co-written by Andrew Revkin and others, exploring the Anthropocene era, where human activity has become a dominant force shaping Earth's environment.

A book by Alex Epstein, arguing for the positive moral impact of fossil fuels on human civilization, emphasizing their benefits for energy, quality of life, and poverty reduction.

Another book by Alex Epstein, which posits that global human flourishing requires more, not less, oil, coal, and natural gas, highlighting their critical role in energy efficiency and societal progress.

A book by Bjørn Lomborg, which argues that climate change panic is causing trillions in costs, hurting the poor, and failing to fix the planet effectively.

A group of generally rich countries mentioned for its survey indicating that 60% of people in OECD nations believe global warming will lead to human extinction, which Lomborg views as an overestimation that skews policy discussions.

Featured in examples of successful e-procurement to reduce corruption and effective disaster preparedness that drastically cut cyclone fatalities from hundreds of thousands to just dozens.

An ice sheet considered particularly vulnerable to collapse, though later research suggests its potential changes may be more progressive rather than sudden catastrophies.

Discussed for its goal of Net Zero by 2050, which is projected to cost trillions annually with a very small impact on global temperatures, highlighting the high cost-benefit ratio of certain climate policies.

A nuclear power plant in Hudson Valley, New York, that was eventually shut down despite being a source of cheap, CO2-free base load power. Its closure led to a reliance on natural gas.

Andrew Revkin's childhood home, where he grew up experiencing hurricanes, noting that the North Atlantic generally had an active hurricane period in the 50s-70s.

Cited for a recent flood where the primary cause of fatalities was faulty alarm systems and local leadership failures, not solely climate change, illustrating how local governance issues can be scapegoated by climate concerns.

Cited as an example of a country that has implemented digital transformation in government, significantly reducing corruption through e-procurement systems and government apps.

The site of a partial nuclear meltdown in 1979 in the U.S., which significantly contributed to public alarmism and negative perceptions of nuclear power.

Cited as an example of an area prone to flash floods (Flash Flood Alley) where human development has increased vulnerability to climate hazards.

Discussed for its huge economic growth and increased emissions, becoming the 'workshop for everyone,' which made global decarbonization efforts by rich countries appear relatively small.

Cited as an area that experiences significant damage from hurricanes, where human development and building in hazardous areas contribute significantly to disaster losses, rather than solely climate change.

A city in the Philippines devastated by a typhoon in 2013, with thousands of deaths largely due to quadrupled population and poor people settling in marginal, vulnerable areas.

A coastal city sinking rapidly due to groundwater withdrawal and being built on sediment, facing sea-level rise challenges much faster than global warming. Its government is moving the capital as a response.

A country where the Canadian development ministry funded a project to identify smart investments after an earthquake, revealing that many desired initiatives were not cost-effective, reinforcing the need for rigorous cost-benefit analysis.

The site of a catastrophic nuclear accident in 1986, which further fueled public fear and alarmism surrounding nuclear energy's safety.

Used as an example of a region where rapid population growth and settlement in floodplains have dramatically increased human vulnerability to climate hazards, overshadowing the direct impact of climate change in disaster losses.

A massive ice sheet containing vast amounts of water, whose melting dynamics are driven by ocean temperature and are still not fully understood, posing a significant but uncertain future sea level rise risk.

The continent with vast ice sheets, whose stability is influenced by ocean temperatures. The concept of 'collapse' for its ice is discussed in terms of long-term geological processes versus sudden events.

Described as 'Ground Zero for climate skepticism,' where a resident, despite religious beliefs about environmental control, adopted solar panels for energy independence rather than climate concerns, illustrating alignment on actions despite differing motivations.

A social media platform discussed as a tool that can be invaluable for learning and focused action, or a source of unproductive, entertaining 'mud wrestling fights' between extreme viewpoints on climate change.

A prominent American newspaper where Andrew Revkin worked as a journalist covering global environmental change for 20 years. Discussed for its role in shaping narratives, including climate change.

A newspaper mentioned for adopting a style guide that mandates terms like 'climate crisis,' 'climate emergency,' and 'global heating,' which is seen as an attempt to amplify rhetorical volume rather than provide objective reporting.

Carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas responsible for global warming. Its increase in the atmosphere is the primary driver of climate change.

An electric vehicle manufacturer, highly influential in pushing forward the electric car revolution. Its efforts are praised for spurring R&D, but the cars are criticized for high cost, being second cars for the wealthy, and material-intensive batteries.

A small outfit in India that implements distributed energy solutions at the village level, such as solar-powered wheat mills, demonstrating social and technological innovation for energy access in poor communities.

An American automotive manufacturer, mentioned alongside GM for entering the electric vehicle market, prompted by Tesla's success.

A hybrid car model praised for its fuel efficiency, offering 60 miles per gallon and eliminating range anxiety. Used as a comparison point for battery weight with electric Hummer.

An innovative device (Gizmo) that significantly reduced air pollution from cars in Los Angeles in the 1950s, demonstrating how technological solutions can solve environmental problems without requiring individual behavioral changes.

Its efforts to achieve 'Net Zero' emissions by 2030 are criticized for high costs (trillions) with minimal measurable impact due to the EU's relatively small share of global emissions in the 21st century.

A U.S. defense department agency with a significant budget for scientific research, used as a comparative benchmark to highlight the historically low R&D investment in energy in the United States.

A think tank led by Bjørn Lomborg, focused on identifying the most effective solutions to global problems by using cost-benefit analysis.

A research group that conducts the 'Six Americas Study,' which carefully charts public beliefs on climate change, identifying different segments from 'dismissive' to 'alarmed.'

The leading international body for assessing climate change. It compiles and summarizes peer-reviewed scientific literature in large volumes, considered the 'gold-plated version' of climate knowledge, but its reports' interpretations in media are a source of alarmism.

A group that aggregates different economic models related to energy and climate, used by Lomborg as a source for his cost estimates.

An organization that supports using gene-editing technology like CRISPR to eliminate disease-causing mosquitoes, prioritizing immediate health benefits over precautionary principles.

Renowned academic institution, home to hurricane and climate scientists like Kerry Emanuel. Also mentioned for its Media Lab and emphasis on demonstrating scientific work.

The source of an analysis in 2013 indicating that 75% of New York City's buildings in 2050 would already exist, posing a challenge for decarbonization efforts.

An infectious disease that needs better public health attention. Prevention through mosquito nets is presented as a highly cost-effective solution.

A satellite launched by the Environmental Defense Fund to provide independent views of methane leaks globally, enabling identification and remediation of hotspots.