Key Moments
#44 – Jeremy Schaap, ESPN journalist: upsets, doping, triumphs, and the importance of sports
Peter Attia MDKey Moments
ESPN journalist Jeremy Schaap discusses boxing upsets, doping, fatherhood, and the significance of sports narratives.
Key Insights
Boxing history offers compelling narratives of underdog triumphs, like James J. Braddock and Buster Douglas, that transcend the sport itself.
The coverage of doping scandals in sports highlights the persistent challenge of maintaining integrity and the difficulty of uncovering truth.
Following in a legendary parent's footsteps presents unique pressures, yet offers a pathway to forging one's own identity and career.
Sports serve as a powerful metaphor for life, teaching valuable lessons about courage, dedication, and resilience.
Journalism in sports requires a delicate balance between asking tough questions and approaching subjects with empathy.
The significance of sports extends beyond entertainment, acting as a cultural unifier and a platform for societal discussions.
THE COMPELLING NATURE OF BOXING NARRATIVES
Jeremy Schaap, an ESPN journalist, expresses a passion for boxing history, particularly focusing on underdog stories. He highlights James J. Braddock's remarkable comeback and Buster Douglas's monumental upset of Mike Tyson as prime examples. Schaap suggests that these narratives, born from desperation and seizing a moment against all odds, resonate deeply because they embody themes of human spirit and resilience, making them compelling subjects for storytelling.
THE PERSISTENT BATTLE AGAINST DOPING
Discussing doping scandals in baseball and cycling, Schaap acknowledges the ongoing struggle for integrity in sports. He reflects on how difficult it can be to ascertain the truth and maintain a fair playing field when performance-enhancing substances are involved. The ubiquity of certain drugs, like HGH, and the challenges in detecting them, present a complex ethical landscape that continues to challenge the purity of athletic competition.
NAVIGATING LEGACY AND PERSONAL IDENTITY
As the son of legendary sports journalist Dick Schaap, Jeremy speaks about the immense pressure of following in his father's footsteps. He recounts his early immersion in the sports media world, initially working alongside his father. This path, while offering a natural apprenticeship, also meant constant comparison and the challenge of carving out his own professional identity, a journey complicated further by his father's untimely death from medical error.
SPORTS AS A SUBSTRATE FOR LIFE'S LESSONS
Schaap views sports as more than just games; they are a profound substrate for metaphors about life. He emphasizes the lessons learned through athletic pursuits, such as courage, dedication, and resilience, which extend far beyond the playing field. These narratives, often dramatic and inspirational, provide a framework for understanding human struggle and triumph, offering a unique lens through which to view the human condition.
THE ETHICS OF SPORTS JOURNALISM
Reflecting on his journalistic career, Schaap underscores the importance of fairness and empathy in reporting, a principle he attributes to his father. He believes his role involves asking difficult questions, even uncomfortable ones, but always with a commitment to truth and a balanced perspective. This approach, he suggests, is crucial for serving both the audience and the integrity of the stories being told, even if it means sacrificing personal relationships.
THE CULTURAL AND SOCIAL SIGNIFICANCE OF SPORTS
Schaap posits that sports serve as a powerful lingua franca, capable of uniting people across diverse backgrounds. In an era where conversations about politics and religion can be divisive, sports offer a common ground for connection. Furthermore, he highlights how sports often act as a vanguard for societal change, bringing attention to issues like racial equality and gender empowerment, and shaping cultural conversations in profound ways.
THE CHALLENGE OF ATHLETIC INTEGRITY
Examining the home run chase of 1998 and the Lance Armstrong era, Schaap expresses a retrospective wish for greater skepticism. He acknowledges being caught up in the moment, celebrating achievements that were later revealed to be tainted by performance-enhancing drugs. This experience underscores the difficulty in distinguishing genuine athletic feats from chemically enhanced performances and the subsequent erosion of trust and historical records.
THE HEAD TRAUMA DEBATE AND FOOTBALL'S FUTURE
The issue of head trauma in sports, particularly football, is identified as a major story underreported in its long-term implications. Schaap contemplates whether football can adapt to concerns about concussions and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) or if declining participation will inevitably impact the sport's popularity and structure. He notes that what seems invincible in the moment, like football's current dominance, can change dramatically over time.
THE UNDETECTABLE EDGE OF HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE
Discussing the ongoing role of doping, Schaap points to human growth hormone (HGH) as a particularly insidious drug due to its detectability. He suggests that HGH is likely widespread in many sports, creating a scenario where the notion of athletes being truly 'clean' is questionable. The long-term health consequences of such widespread use remain a significant, largely unaddressed concern.
THE POWER OF SPORTS AS CATHARSIS AND CONNECTION
Schaap explores the emotional impact of sports, arguing that the shared experience of victory or near-victory provides a unique form of catharsis and connection. He contrasts the electric atmosphere of major sporting events, like the Super Bowl or World Cup, with other forms of entertainment, asserting that sports offer an unparalleled communal emotional release and a sense of belonging that is deeply human and universal.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Companies
●Organizations
●Books
●Drugs & Medications
●People Referenced
Common Questions
James J. Braddock was a light heavyweight boxer whose career collapsed during the Great Depression. Despite breaking his hand and going on welfare, his physical labor on the docks built immense strength. He secured an unlikely shot at the heavyweight title against Max Baer in 1935 and won, becoming a symbol of hope during difficult times.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
An undefeated heavyweight boxing champion, mentioned in the lineage of historical heavyweights.
A handsome and powerful heavyweight boxer whose career was significantly affected by his killing of Frankie Campbell in the ring. He lost his title to James J. Braddock.
A German boxer who beat Joe Louis in an upset in 1936, and whom Max Baer had previously beaten.
A boxing trainer and commentator who made an interesting point on Joe Rogan's podcast regarding Mike Tyson's career, stating Tyson never won a fight if the opponent wasn't already psychically defeated.
A boxer who took Mike Tyson the distance, one of the three who did so early in Tyson's career.
A Hall of Fame promoter and matchmaker who knew Buster Douglas from childhood and thought Douglas should pull out of the Tyson fight after his mother's death.
Baseball player who broke the color line in 1947, representing a watershed moment in the civil rights struggle. Baseball is used as a platform to tell stories that transcend sports.
Baseball player who hit 61 home runs, a record whose legacy was 'stolen' by Mark McGwire's steroid-fueled chase, eliciting a soft spot from the host.
Another heavyweight boxer whose death was controversially blamed on Max Baer's previous beating, although meningitis was a contributing factor.
A modern heavyweight boxer, still undefeated after a fight with Tyson Fury, known for his athletic build but also his relatively lower weight compared to other giants.
A heavyweight boxing champion who defeated Mike Tyson, and who is considered one of the top ten heavyweights of all time.
A tough fighter who took Mike Tyson the distance and also fought Buster Douglas, where Douglas was accused of quitting.
A heavyweight champion who Buster Douglas had beaten, showing Douglas's skill before fighting Tyson. He also beat Lennox Lewis.
A controversial basketball coach, famous for his temper, whose post-firing interview with Jeremy Schaap was a challenging and career-defining moment.
A former MLB executive whose infamous 'Nightline' interview sparked a national discussion about racial issues beyond sports.
A cyclist whose testimony about widespread doping in cycling was found to be the 'most credible' by the host, significantly altering his perception of Lance Armstrong.
A Colombian soccer player whose murder after the 1994 World Cup for an own goal was the subject of an ESPN 30 for 30, highlighting heartbreaking consequences.
A former NFL player and sports executive who told Jeremy Schaap about Bo Jackson's unexpected weaknesses in certain sports skills.
Jeremy Schaap's father, a renowned journalist whose footsteps Jeremy followed. His early death due to medical error is discussed.
One of the most iconic heavyweight champions, whose long career and unique ethos set him apart from 'destroyers' like Tyson.
Actor who starred in the movie 'Cinderella Man', based on James J. Braddock's story.
A boxer whose incredible story is detailed in the book and movie 'Cinderella Man'. He went from poverty to become a heavyweight champion, inspiring many.
An early heavyweight boxing champion, mentioned as part of the historical lineage of boxing legends.
A giant heavyweight boxer whom Max Baer beat in a 'ridiculous fashion' before his fight with Braddock. He was also involved in the fight where Ernie Shaaf died.
Boxer who fought Mike Tyson in July 1989, prior to the Douglas fight.
A boxer who took Mike Tyson the distance by clinching, indicating Tyson's ability to be troubled by bigger opponents.
A young reporter who interviewed Buster Douglas's mother after a fight, asking if she was proud, highlighting the sentimental aspect of Douglas's story.
A producer and journalist who advised Jeremy Schaap before his interview with Bobby Knight about Knight potentially using Schaap's father as a weapon.
A journalist from 'The London Times' who did 'great reporting' on Lance Armstrong's doping, leading to a lawsuit against the newspaper.
A cyclist who was stripped of his Tour de France title due to doping, a decision contrasted with the argument that Armstrong's titles should be reinstated.
The notorious Colombian drug lord whose influence on the Andres Escobar murder was speculated upon, posing the question if the player would have been safe had he been alive.
A baseball player whose acknowledged steroid use and subsequent Hall of Fame exclusion sparked a discussion about the sport's ethics and legacy.
Known for his historic upset victory over Mike Tyson, which is the subject of the ESPN '42 to 1' documentary.
Considered one of the greatest heavyweight champions of all time, known for his dominant reign and influential rematch with Max Schmeling.
A legendary boxer, mentioned for his greatness alongside heavyweights.
Frankie Campbell's older brother, who became an excellent first baseman and MVP in Major League Baseball.
A heavyweight boxer who fought Deontay Wilder to a draw.
A heavyweight boxer who had epic fights with Riddick Bowe and later defeated Mike Tyson twice. Douglas was expected to fight him after Tyson.
Host of a popular podcast where Teddy Atlas discussed Mike Tyson.
A heavyweight boxer humiliated by Mike Tyson, and later mentioned as one of the three best heavyweights after Muhammad Ali.
A boxing promoter who famously called Buster Douglas a 'dog' and a 'quitter'. Douglas later sued him.
A heavyweight champion who Buster Douglas had beaten, showing Douglas's skill before fighting Tyson.
Basketball player who was on the cover of the Sports Illustrated issue containing the article about Mike Tyson's potential burnout.
The acclaimed television newsman who hosted the 'Nightline' interview with Al Campanis, praised for his fair but tough approach.
A baseball player, known as 'Shoeless Joe', who was banned from baseball for his alleged involvement in the 1919 World Series fix, leading to his exclusion from the Hall of Fame despite his talent.
The formidable heavyweight boxer who suffered a shocking upset loss to Buster Douglas. His career and aura were discussed, including his post-prison fights.
A great light-heavyweight boxer to whom James J. Braddock lost his one shot at the title in the late 1920s.
A heavyweight boxer known for his destructive ethos, whose career trajectory was compared to Mike Tyson's regarding burnout. His aura was also compared to Tyson's.
Boxer who fought Mike Tyson in Tokyo, referenced in connection with the Sports Illustrated article.
Cyclist whose Tour de France victories and comeback story were covered by Jeremy Schaap. Schaap later regretted not being more skeptical of his doping denials.
A legendary baseball player whose home run record Roger Maris chased. Babe Ruth also called Joe Jackson the greatest hitter of all time.
The Buffalo Bills kicker who missed a last-second field goal in Super Bowl XXV, resulting in a Giants victory.
A legendary heavyweight boxer, known for his destructive style and significant celebrity. His fights and career were compared to Tyson's.
A boxing legend, mentioned for his greatness alongside heavyweights.
A boxer who died in the ring after fighting Max Baer in 1930, an event that profoundly affected Baer's career and life.
A heavyweight boxer mentioned in the context of epic rounds, specifically Round 10 of his fight with Evander Holyfield.
A legendary boxer whose first round against Hagler was iconic.
Heavyweight boxer who was annihilated by Mike Tyson, highlighting Tyson's earlier invincibility.
The boxing referee who stopped Buster Douglas's fight against Tony Tucker, a decision that led to Douglas being unfairly labeled a 'quitter'.
A heavyweight boxer known for his destructive ethos, whose career trajectory was compared to Mike Tyson's regarding burnout.
A boxing trainer whom Mike Tyson might not have listened to due to his perceived invincibility.
Boxer who defeated Jack Dempsey in two historic fights, including the 'Long Count' rematch, despite Dempsey being the more talked-about figure.
Baseball player involved in the 1998 home run chase alongside Mark McGwire. Later implicated in steroid use.
A beloved baseball player, mentioned in comparison to Roger Maris and the challenges Maris faced.
An up-and-coming boxer who was unexpectedly beaten by James J. Braddock, serving as a stepping stone for Braddock's comeback.
James J. Braddock's manager and best friend who Braddock forbid from throwing in the towel during his fight with Joe Louis.
A middleweight boxing champion, mentioned in the context of legendary boxing rounds for his first round against Thomas Hearns.
Buster Douglas's father, a boxer with a 'Tyson-like' destructive approach in the ring, contrasting with Buster's gentler disposition.
A boxing trainer whom Mike Tyson might not have listened to due to his perceived invincibility.
A sportscaster and journalist who had a discussion with Jeremy Schaap after 9/11 about the perceived insignificance of sports in the wake of the attacks.
Baseball player involved in the 1998 home run chase, whom Jeremy Schaap covered extensively. Later admitted to steroid use, leading Schaap to regret not being more skeptical.
A baseball player mentioned alongside Barry Bonds as a Hall of Fame-caliber player before alleged steroid use, though the timing of drug use is debated.
A multi-sport athlete considered by Jeremy Schaap's father to be the greatest athlete of the 20th century, known for incredible athleticism but also some surprising skill gaps.
An article published in March 1988, before the Tyson-Spinks fight, that predicted Mike Tyson's bright-burning career would end quickly, comparing him to past 'destroyers'.
An American football team that lost Super Bowl XXV when Scott Norwood missed a last-second kick.
An American football team mentioned for their first Super Bowl win as underdogs.
A Major League Baseball team that lost the World Series in 2001, a time when some hoped a victory could provide catharsis after 9/11.
The top-tier of English football, where Leicester City achieved a 5,000-to-1 upset victory.
A newspaper that faced a lawsuit and lost a million pounds for reporting on Lance Armstrong's doping.
A supplement found in Mark McGwire's locker during his home run chase, which was legal at the time but raised questions about doping and led to public acceptance of his denials.
A performance-enhancing drug that Lance Armstrong was accused of using, leading to questions about cycling's integrity.
A television series that reminded the host about Pablo Escobar's life and unique sense of loyalty.
An ESPN 30 for 30 special directed by Jeremy Schaap, chronicling the Buster Douglas upset of Mike Tyson.
A television news program, specifically an infamous edition featuring Al Campanis, that sparked nationwide discussion.
Jeremy Schaap is a preeminent journalist at ESPN.
Major League Baseball team for whom Dolph Camilli played and won the National League MVP in 1941.
An American football team (now Los Angeles Rams) mentioned as an example of a team that won a championship as a huge underdog.
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