Key Moments
Michael Schur — Lessons from "The Office" and SNL, Moral Philosophy, Storytelling, and More
Tim FerrissKey Moments
Michael Schur discusses comedy writing, moral philosophy, and lessons from SNL, The Office, and The Good Place.
Key Insights
The Harvard Lampoon provided a meritocratic training ground for comedy writers, emphasizing rigorous critique and improvement.
Saturday Night Live instills a crucial lesson in not being precious with material, teaching writers to ruthlessly cut for the sake of the show.
David Foster Wallace's work profoundly impacted Schur's understanding of literature and the world, leading to a desire to adapt 'Infinite Jest'.
Long-form TV writing requires slow-cooking characters and narratives, a stark contrast to the sketch-based, gag-driven nature of SNL.
The Good Place was conceived as a challenging project about moral philosophy, made palatable by a clear vision, star power, and a commitment to entertainment.
Schur believes ethics and civics are vital subjects, often undertaught, and advocates for engaging with them to improve individual lives and society.
THE HARVARD LAMPOON: A COMEDIC FOUNDATION
Michael Schur discusses the prestigious and satirical Harvard Lampoon, a long-standing institution known for producing numerous successful alumni in comedy and writing. He details his own journey to join, emphasizing its meritocratic audition process. Writers submitted comedic pieces without knowing the reviewers, underscoring the Lampoon's focus on the humor and quality of the material above all else. This environment fostered a critical approach to writing, where pieces were honed through feedback.
LESSONS FROM THE SNL GAUNTLET
Schur highlights the invaluable, albeit brutal, lessons learned during his seven years at Saturday Night Live. He explains that SNL's fast-paced, deadline-driven environment forces writers to become less attached to their material, teaching them to cut anything that doesn't serve the sketch's overall success. This 'ruthless' approach prevents preciousness and ensures focus, a skill he believes is essential for all comedy writers and one that makes successful SNL alumni uniquely resilient.
THE INFLUENCE OF DAVID FOSTER WALLACE
David Foster Wallace's novel 'Infinite Jest' had a transformative effect on Schur, altering his perception of literature and the world. This deep admiration led Schur to attempt adapting the complex novel into a limited series, a project that ultimately did not materialize due to its immense scope and estate concerns. His engagement with Wallace's work reflects a fascination with intricate narratives and profound human observation.
THE DIVERGENCE FROM SKIT COMEDY TO LONG-FORM NARRATIVE
Schur contrasts the quick, idea-driven nature of sketch comedy with the sustained character and plot development required for long-form television. Unlike SNL sketches, which are disposable and focused on immediate laughs, shows like 'The Office' demand a slow-cooked approach, carefully building characters and relationships over many episodes. This requires a deep understanding of narrative pacing, character growth, and the crafting of intricate 'dollhouses' of stories.
CRAFTING 'THE GOOD PLACE': A PHILOSOPHICAL SWING
When offered creative freedom by NBC, Schur decided to tackle 'The Good Place,' a show about moral philosophy. He strategically developed a comprehensive season-long arc and secured lead actors Ted Danson and Kristen Bell to make the concept palatable. His pitch emphasized that the show, while deeply rooted in philosophical concepts, would be funny, entertaining, and not feel like homework, drawing on the inherent humor in philosophical thought experiments and figures.
ETHICS AS A LIFE IMPROVEMENT STRATEGY
Schur's exploration of moral philosophy, ignited by a personal incident, led to his book 'How to Be Perfect.' He aims to demystify complex philosophical ideas, much like 'A Brief History of Time' did for astrophysics. He advocates for ethics and civics education as foundational for societal well-being, encouraging everyone to engage with these subjects to improve their lives and decision-making, emphasizing that even basic ethical inquiry can offer profound benefits.
THE POWER OF VIRTUE AND PRAGMATISM
Schur identifies Aristotle and William James as his key philosophical guides. Aristotle's virtue ethics, focusing on developing good character traits by finding a 'dead solid midpoint,' offers a forgiving framework for human imperfection. William James's pragmatism, which prioritizes what is true and useful, provides a flexible approach adaptable to complex modern life. Together, they offer a balance of self-compassion and a commitment to truth.
LEARNING THROUGH FAILURE: THE SNL EXPERIENCE
Schur describes the intense, visceral pain of having sketches fail at SNL, a common experience that paradoxically builds resilience. He learned that frequent, public failure in a creative environment prevents arrogance and fosters humility. This 'institutional memory of failure' keeps successes in perspective and prevents the self-importance that can derail creative endeavors, making writers more grounded and less prone to becoming monsters.
THE ART OF THE APOLOGY AND COLLECTING MEMORIES
Metaphorically, Schur would put 'Say you're sorry' on a billboard, believing that apologizing is a crucial, albeit difficult, skill often poorly executed. His personal collection, reflecting his non-materialistic nature, primarily consists of books, each with significant inscribed meaning. The 'five things in a burning house' game serves as a personal check-in on what truly holds value, revealing a thoughtful engagement with possessions and their significance.
THE GENEROSITY OF 'HOW TO BE PERFECT'
Reflecting his deep belief in the importance of ethics, Schur is donating 100% of his proceeds from 'How to Be Perfect' to charity. This decision stems from his conviction that while a book on ethics is valuable, personal profit from it would be incongruous. Collaborating with experts like Professor Todd May, he ensures the book's integrity while channeling its financial success into causes that align with ethical principles.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●Books
●Concepts
●People Referenced
Common Questions
Michael Schur learned about the Harvard Lampoon early on and made joining it his top goal when applying to Harvard. He went through a merit-based audition process, submitting comedy pieces, and was accepted after demonstrating his writing ability anonymously.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
Enlightenment philosopher mentioned among the smartest people to ever live who pondered human improvement.
Physicist whose laws are compared to the foundational elements of sitcom writing.
Comedian Michael Schur worked with at SNL.
Actor and director, who adapted and directed the film Motherless Brooklyn, facing creative challenges similar to Schur's idea of adapting Infinite Jest.
Author of 'A Brief History of Time', praised for making astrophysics accessible without condescension.
Late 19th/early 20th-century philosopher known for pragmatism, which Michael Schur finds incredibly inviting for its truth-seeking, 'jambalaya-of-philosophy' approach.
Comedian and actor, star of Brooklyn Nine-Nine, who learned "not to be precious" with his material from his time at SNL.
Actor Michael Schur wanted to cast in The Good Place, who expressed interest and helped the show get greenlit.
Comedian and host who produced Weekend Update with Michael Schur.
A character from The Office, used as an example of character development by Michael Schur.
Basketball player, used as an example of practicing basics even at peak performance, relating to fundamental ethics.
The American television host and comedian whose show featured legendary comedy writer Jim Downey.
Michael Schur's friend who created Brooklyn Nine-Nine.
Philosopher whose name Tim Ferriss jokingly invokes regarding the unexpected philosophical depth of The Good Place. Michael Schur later describes Kant as 'sticklery' with mistakes.
Philosopher mentioned for his complex work in logic, contrasted with the utilitarian need for practical guidance in daily life.
A character from The Office who was uptight and religious; a story about a poster of 'babies dressed like jazz musicians' was used to dimensionalize her character.
Former president of the Harvard Lampoon, twice, which is rare.
Comedian and actress, mentioned as having the same 'end product' mindset as Andy Samberg from her time at SNL.
Former President of the United States who sent a handwritten note to Michael Schur expressing appreciation for The Good Place.
Notable alumnus of the Harvard Lampoon, an American journalist, writer, editor, and occasional actor.
Guest on the Tim Ferriss Show, creator and co-creator of several critically acclaimed comedy series including The Good Place, Parks and Recreation, and Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Author of 'How to Be Perfect'.
Notable alumnus of the Harvard Lampoon, an American novelist, poet, short-story writer, art critic, and literary critic.
A character from The Office who knitted oven mitts for Michael Scott in a Christmas episode.
Actor who played Ryan on The Office.
Actress Michael Schur wanted to cast in The Good Place, who expressed interest and helped the show get greenlit.
Scottish Enlightenment philosopher mentioned among the smartest people to ever live who pondered human improvement.
Starting pitcher for the Boston Red Sox, mentioned in David Halberstam's inscription as a reason for optimism for the 2004 season.
A sports writer and friend of Michael Schur's wife's family, who inscribed a book to Schur predicting a Red Sox World Series win.
Adapted The Office for America and hired Michael Schur, becoming a pivotal mentor and 'professor' who taught Schur long-form TV writing and character development.
Comedian and writer who produced Weekend Update with Michael Schur.
Notable alumnus of the Harvard Lampoon.
Philosophy professor at Clemson University who wrote 'Death', became an advisor for The Good Place, and collaborated with Michael Schur on his book 'How to Be Perfect'.
Philosophy professor at UCLA, who was another go-to advisor for Michael Schur during The Good Place.
18th-century English philosopher who invented utilitarianism, described as a 'true weirdo' and proto-feminist. Michael Schur would want to have drinks with him.
Writer of Animal House and Harvard Lampoon alumnus.
A legendary comedy writer at David Letterman and Harvard Lampoon alumnus.
English philosopher mentioned among the smartest people to ever live who pondered human improvement.
Writer who wrote humor for Rolling Stone, illustrating a past era of prose comedy.
A character in The Good Place who is a moral philosophy professor, explicitly teaching philosophy in the show.
American author who wrote 'Infinite Jest' and had a lasting fascination for Michael Schur. Schur regretted not rekindling their correspondence.
Relief pitcher for the Boston Red Sox, mentioned in David Halberstam's inscription as a reason for optimism for the 2004 season.
Comedian Michael Schur worked with at SNL.
A character from The Office, played by BJ Novak, who received a video iPod from Michael Scott in a Secret Santa exchange.
Comedian Michael Schur worked with at SNL, who also experienced frequent professional failures, normalizing the experience.
Author whose book Pnin Michael Schur collects first editions of.
Author whose obscure novels Michael Schur scoured eBay for copies of.
Immanuel Kant's philosophical work, described as dense and unenjoyable to read for the average person.
A book by David Foster Wallace that profoundly impacted Michael Schur, who considered adapting it into a limited series.
A first edition copy of which Michael Schur collects and would save from a burning house.
Stephen Hawking's book, which Michael Schur aims for his own book to emulate in making complex subjects accessible and engaging.
A book by Todd May, discussing how mortality gives shape to life and the relevance of morality for immortals.
Michael Schur's new book, which aims to make moral philosophy accessible and entertaining. All proceeds are donated to charity.
A book by Vladimir Nabokov that Michael Schur loves and collects first editions of.
David Foster Wallace's commencement speech, which uses a parable about fish to illustrate how we often fail to recognize the 'water' of our own pervasive assumptions and beliefs.
Streaming service that airs Hacks, for which Michael Schur is an executive producer.
A magazine known for its 'Shouts and Murmurs' page, a form of prose comedy similar to what was done at the Harvard Lampoon.
News program that requested an interview with Michael Schur about his car accident blog.
The university where the Harvard Lampoon is based and where Michael Schur attended college.
The team the Red Sox lost a heartbreaking playoff series to before their 2004 World Series win.
One of the charities that receives donations from the proceeds of Michael Schur's book 'How to Be Perfect', focused on buying and preserving rainforest land.
Radio program that requested an interview with Michael Schur about his car accident blog.
A very old, satirical comedy magazine at Harvard, known for having numerous high-achieving alumni in comedy and literature. Michael Schur was its president.
Charity to which Michael Schur offered to donate money instead of paying for car repairs.
One of the charities that receives donations from the proceeds of Michael Schur's book 'How to Be Perfect'.
Michael Schur's favorite baseball team, whose World Series win in 2004 was predicted in an inscribed book he treasures.
Magazine that published an article in 2008 referencing The Office's mission statement about character change.
The university where Pamela Hieronymi teaches philosophy.
Michael Schur's first TV writing job, where he spent seven seasons, including three as producer of Weekend Update. It taught him not to be precious with his material.
A magazine that P.J. O'Rourke wrote humor for.
Used as a metaphor for the immediate audience feedback a stand-up comedian receives.
City severely affected by Hurricane Katrina, prompting Michael Schur's blog and fundraising efforts.
The center of the film and television industry, which Michael Schur suggests would benefit if everyone worked at SNL for a year.
A series on HBO Max for which Michael Schur is an executive producer.
A segment on Saturday Night Live, produced by Michael Schur for three seasons with Tina Fey and Jimmy Fallon.
A comedy series co-created by Michael Schur, starring Andy Samberg.
The podcast hosting Michael Schur for this interview.
TV show with an episode 'The Fly' that Tim Ferriss mentioned as a re-watch favorite of Michael Schur, but they didn't get to discuss.
A sports blog Michael Schur co-ran anonymously under the name 'Ken Tremendous,' complaining about bad sports writing.
A critically acclaimed NBC comedy created by Michael Schur, focused on moral philosophy and the afterlife. It was a 'trojan horse' for Tim Ferriss into philosophy.
A comedy series co-created by Michael Schur.
A Peacock series co-created by Michael Schur.
A Netflix series for which Michael Schur is an executive producer.
An Emmy Award-winning NBC hit comedy where Michael Schur spent four years as a writer and producer. He initially thought adapting the British version was a terrible idea.
A film written by Doug Kenney, a Harvard Lampoon alumnus.
An animated TV show for which Harvard Lampoon alumni have written.
A show for which Michael Schur wrote a spec script when first applying for jobs in Los Angeles.
A TV show that Michael Schur compared to David Foster Wallace's predictive elements in Infinite Jest.
A film adapted and directed by Edward Norton, which faced creative challenges in translating the novel's unique dialogue style.
A British sitcom adaptation that Michael Schur's wife wrote for, which hadn't worked, and Greg Daniels questioned him about.
TV show with an episode 'The Constant' that Tim Ferriss mentioned as a re-watch favorite of Michael Schur, but they didn't get to discuss.
Michael Schur's production company, originally an imaginary company for his 'Ken Tremendous' persona.
The network that aired Michael Schur's critically acclaimed comedy The Good Place and The Office, where he was a writer and producer.
Streaming service that airs Master of None, for which Michael Schur is an executive producer.
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