What is 'identity paralysis' and how can one overcome a profound loss of identity?

Identity paralysis occurs when what you are and what you're about is called into question, leading to feeling stuck. To overcome it, anchor your identity to 'why' you do things (e.g., human connection) rather than 'what' you do (e.g., a specific career), finding that underlying motivation in new pursuits. (Timestamp: 513)

What role do concepts like 'awe' and 'delight' play in shaping personal trajectories and identity?

Awe-inspiring experiences, characterized by vastness and a need for accommodation, can serve as a powerful entry point to defining new identities, especially when combined with a sense of 'delight'—the realization that there's a place for you to actively engage and enact change within that sphere. (Timestamp: 1182)

How did Maya Shankar's early music training, despite her lack of sight-reading ability, contribute to her intrinsic motivation?

Maya Shankar learned violin entirely by ear through the Suzuki method and an unconventional teacher, allowing her to 'jump straight to the fun stuff' without the rigid structure of scales. This direct engagement with enjoyable parts of music helped cultivate a natural love and intrinsic motivation for the instrument. (Timestamp: 2018)

How can individuals generate opportunities when they don't seem to exist, drawing from Maya Shankar's experience?

Inspired by her mother's boldness, Maya Shankar learned to 'cold call' and pitch ideas, such as creating a new Behavioral Science Advisor position at the White House and then proposing herself for the role, demonstrating that imaginative courage can create paths where none are obvious. (Timestamp: 2510)

How can anchoring one's identity to core intrinsic drives, like curiosity and progress, provide resilience?

By identifying and connecting to internal motivations like deep curiosity or the relish of getting better, individuals can insulate themselves from external noise and comparative pressures. These intrinsic drives are protective because they cannot be taken away by external circumstances or outcomes, providing a sturdy foundation. (Timestamp: 3102)

What is the 'End of History Illusion' and how does it impact how we perceive change?

The 'End of History Illusion' is our tendency to acknowledge significant personal change in the past but believe our current self is the permanent, final version. This illusion hinders our ability to anticipate how profoundly we might change in response to future life alterations, leading to misjudgments about how we'll cope. (Timestamp: 4712)

What are effective behavioral strategies for gaining self-knowledge and accepting feedback?

To gain self-knowledge, deliberately seek diverse social connections, especially with those holding different views. For feedback, adopt a 'you might be right' mindset, and when venting, ask friends to serve as 'cognitive advisors' to challenge your narrative rather than just offering emotional comfort. Self-talk from a third-person perspective can also increase objectivity. (Timestamp: 4997)

How does framing goals with an 'approach orientation' (vs. avoidance) impact motivation?

Goals framed with an 'approach orientation' (e.g., 'eat healthier foods') lead to feelings of pride and accomplishment upon success, boosting motivation, endurance, and perseverance. 'Avoidance-oriented' goals (e.g., 'avoid unhealthy foods') result in feelings of calm and relief, which are less motivating, and are harder to measure. (Timestamp: 6111)

How can individuals leverage 'agency' to enhance their motivation in pursuing goals?

Humans are highly motivated by a sense of agency and control. To leverage this, build choice sets into your goals—whether at work or in personal pursuits—allowing you to own the targets and decisions. This intrinsic drive from being in the 'driver's seat' dramatically boosts motivation and satisfaction. (Timestamp: 6509)

What are the three distinct types of empathy, and how do they impact burnout?

The three types are: emotional empathy (visceral feeling of others' pain), cognitive empathy (accurately diagnosing others' distress), and empathic concern/compassion (desire to help). High emotional empathy correlates with higher burnout rates, while cultivating cognitive empathy and empathic concern can be protective against burnout. (Timestamp: 7765)

What is the 'middle problem' in goal pursuit, and how can it be overcome?

The 'middle problem' is a dip in motivation experienced between the initial boost and the final push towards a goal. To overcome it, shorten the duration of goals (e.g., weekly instead of annual), use 'temptation bundling' by pairing tedious tasks with rewarding activities, and apply the 'peak-end rule' to make the end of unpleasant tasks slightly less aversive. (Timestamp: 8423)

How can the 'Fresh Start Effect' and 'emergency reserves' be used to improve goal adherence?

The 'Fresh Start Effect' suggests leveraging milestone moments (new job, new week, new year) to introduce new habits, as they offer a clean break from the past. 'Emergency reserves' involve building 'get out of jail free cards' into your goals (e.g., 3 missed workouts are okay) to prevent feeling like a total failure and abandoning the goal entirely after minor setbacks. (Timestamp: 8254)

Key Moments

How to Shape Your Identity & Goals | Dr. Maya Shankar

Andrew Huberman

Science & Technology6 min read154 min video

Jul 24, 2023|1,242,917 views|15,999|1,134

andrew huberman huberman lab podcast huberman podcast dr. andrew huberman neuroscience huberman lab andrew huberman podcast the huberman lab podcast science podcast maya shankar cognitive science white house advisor

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Dr. Maya Shankar discusses identity's formation, evolution, and practical tools for goal setting & motivation.

Key Insights

Identity is often anchored to "what we do," leading to crisis when that 'what' is lost; anchoring to "why we do it" creates a more resilient identity.

Curiosity is a self-amplifying motivation, driving continuous learning and personal evolution without requiring attachment to specific outcomes.

People often define themselves and their goals based on external benchmarks or societal expectations, impacting intrinsic motivation.

Framing goals with an "approach orientation" (e.g., eat healthier) is generally more motivating and leads to greater pride than "avoidance orientation" (e.g., avoid unhealthy foods).

Agency and control over one's goals significantly boost motivation and satisfaction, even if external guidance is involved.

Empathy comprises emotional, cognitive, and compassionate types; recognizing and valuing all three can protect against burnout and foster better understanding.

Overcoming the 'middle problem' in goal pursuit requires shortening goal durations, using 'temptation bundling', and leveraging 'fresh start effects'.

THE MALLEABILITY OF IDENTITY: BEYOND 'WHAT WE DO'

Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist and former White House advisor, discusses the profound impact of identity on our lives. Identity is often shaped by early observations and societal expectations, leading to 'identity foreclosure' where individuals are projected into specific roles, often occupational. This can limit self-perception. A critical insight is that many people anchor their identity to 'what they do' (e.g., a violinist), which can lead to profound identity crises if that role is lost due to unforeseen circumstances like injury. Shankar's personal journey, transitioning from a concert violinist to a cognitive scientist after a career-ending injury, illustrates the importance of anchoring identity to 'why' one does things (e.g., human connection) rather than 'what' one does. This 'through line' offers a more durable and adaptable sense of self, allowing for evolution and resilience through life changes.

ADOLESCENCE, ESSENCES, AND THE GROWTH MINDSET

Adolescence marks a period of intense identity exploration driven by the brain's changes and a burgeoning desire for independence. Teenagers often experiment with different roles and behaviors, questioning 'who am I?' and breaking from imposed structures. However, a common psychological trap is 'essentialism'—the belief that individuals possess immutable, core qualities. This belief can foster shame ('I am a failure' instead of 'I failed') and limit a growth mindset. Shankar advocates for a more capacious view of identity, recognizing ourselves as collections of behaviors and thoughts rather than fixed essences. This perspective allows for greater flexibility, personal growth, and self-compassion, preventing harmful self-narratives and enabling adaptation to change.

AWE, DELIGHT, AND THE PATH TO PURPOSE

The discussion often returns to 'awe' and 'delight' as powerful motivators. Awe, characterized by perceived vastness and a 'need for accommodation' (integrating new, overwhelming information into existing mental models), can be both positive and negative. Delight, however, emerges when an awe-inspiring experience reveals a place for personal engagement and 'verb-state' within it—the realization that one can actively participate, manipulate, and contribute. For Shankar, this 'delight' was initially found in the emotional connection of music; later, in the ability to conduct experiments and unveil fundamental truths in cognitive science. This realization of personal agency within an awe-inspiring domain transforms appreciation into intrinsic motivation and a sense of purpose, driving individuals towards active pursuit rather than passive observation.

THE REVOLT OF CURIOSITY: FROM VIOLINIST TO COGNITIVE SCIENTIST

Shankar's pivot from violin to cognitive science exemplifies the power of curiosity. After her injury, passive observation gave way to a dad's suggestion to "read a lot." Discovering a pop science book on language sparked an interest that rapidly self-amplified. Her unique entry into music through ear-training rather than sight-reading, and her parents' non-interventionist approach, fostered intrinsic motivation. Similarly, her scientific journey began not with an expectation of professional success, but with a pure desire to learn more. Curiosity, presented as an upward spiral with no fixed endpoint, is about seeking 'what's next' without emotional attachment to specific outcomes, finding delight in even the unexpected. This intrinsic drive allows for continuous evolution, a crucial element in rebuilding identity after significant life changes.

REFINING SELF-NARRATIVES AND EMBRACING UNCERTAINTY

Our internal narratives and self-perception are often incomplete or biased by salient negative experiences. To cultivate a richer self-understanding, Shankar suggests actively seeking diverse perspectives, especially from those with whom we disagree. This 'uncomfortable' feedback can reveal blind spots and foster self-awareness. Critically, she challenges the modern emphasis on unbridled 'authenticity,' arguing that caring about how we impact others is vital for social creatures. Furthermore, she highlights the human aversion to uncertainty, often preferring a guaranteed negative outcome over a 50/50 chance. Cultivating 'cognitive closure' (the need for definitive answers) can limit growth; reducing it and embracing open-ended curiosity builds resilience and allows for profound personal shifts, challenging the 'end of history illusion' that assumes our present selves are static.

EMPATHY'S MULTIPLE FORMS AND THE BATTLE AGAINST BURNOUT

Empathy is often misunderstood as a singular 'emotional' response. Shankar clarifies three distinct types: emotional (visceral feeling of others' pain), cognitive (accurately diagnosing distress and solutions), and empathic concern/compassion (the desire to help). These types do not necessarily correlate within individuals. Society often overvalues emotional empathy, overlooking those strong in cognitive empathy or compassion. Recognizing these 'empathy languages' allows for a broader appreciation of how people connect and offer support. For professionals in high-stress fields, high emotional empathy can lead to burnout. Cultivating cognitive empathy and empathic concern, however, can be protective, allowing individuals to remain engaged and helpful without being depleted by carrying others' emotional burdens. This nuanced understanding encourages a more selective investment in different forms of empathy.

MASTERING GOAL SETTING AND THE 'MIDDLE PROBLEM'

Effective goal setting involves both defining and pursuing goals. Shankar outlines several behavioral science-backed strategies. First, framing goals with an 'approach orientation' ("eat healthier") yields more pride and motivation than an 'avoidance orientation' ("avoid unhealthy foods"). Second, intrinsic motivation is maximized when individuals have 'agency' and ownership over their goals, even in coached environments. Third, setting goals when in the same psychological and physiological state as goal pursuit (e.g., in the gym for a workout goal) helps bridge the 'empathy gap' between present and future selves, leading to more realistic and attainable goals. Fourth, building an 'emergency reserve' (e.g., three 'get out of jail free cards' for missed workouts) prevents perfectionism-driven abandonment. Finally, leveraging the 'fresh start effect' (milestone moments or arbitrary fresh starts like the start of a week) provides psychological resets for new habits.

OVERCOMING MOTIVATION LULLS: THE MIDDLE PROBLEM SOLUTION

A critical challenge in goal pursuit is the 'middle problem' — a dip in motivation after the initial enthusiasm and before the surge near the finish line (the 'goal gradient effect'). To overcome this, Shankar recommends shortening the duration of goals (e.g., a weekly goal instead of an annual one) to reduce the length of the 'middle.' Another powerful strategy is 'temptation bundling,' where an unpleasant activity (e.g., folding laundry) is paired with an immediately rewarding one (e.g., listening to a favorite podcast or music), with the proviso that the reward is exclusively reserved for the bundled unpleasant task. This links the chore with immediate gratification, making it more desirable. Lastly, understanding the 'peak-end rule' of memory (that we disproportionately remember the emotional peak and end of an experience) can be leveraged. By making the final moments of a challenging task slightly less unpleasant (or intensely enjoyable if that's the desired sensation), the overall memory of the experience becomes more favorable, increasing the likelihood of future engagement.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Supplements

●Products

●Companies

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Behavioral Strategies for Identity, Goals, and Motivation

Practical takeaways from this episode

Do This

Anchor your identity to 'why' you do things, not 'what' you do, to ensure durability and purpose.

Cultivate a growth mindset and recognize that your 'essence' is not immutable, allowing for change and improvement.

Seek out diverse perspectives and actively engage with people you disagree with to gain self-awareness and challenge your own viewpoints.

Be inquisitive about how you change during life transitions; constantly audit yourself to understand spillover effects.

Frame goals with an 'approach orientation' (e.g., 'eat healthier foods') rather than an 'avoidance orientation' (e.g., 'avoid unhealthy foods') for higher motivation.

Take ownership of your goals and targets; build agency into your pursuits, even with coaches or trainers, to boost intrinsic motivation.

Set goals when you are in the same psychological and physiological state as when you will pursue them (e.g., plan workouts at 6 AM while at the gym at 6 AM).

Build an 'emergency reserve' or 'slack' into your goals (e.g., three 'get out of jail free cards' for missed workouts) to avoid falling off track completely.

Capitalize on 'Fresh Start Effects' (New Year, new job, new week) to introduce new habits more easily.

Shorten the time duration of your goals (e.g., weekly instead of annual) to reduce time spent in the motivational 'middle problem'.

Use 'temptation bundling' by pairing an unpleasant task with an immediately enjoyable activity (e.g., listening to a podcast while doing laundry), but reserve the enjoyable activity for that task only.

When revisiting challenging activities, tack on a slightly less intense/painful few minutes at the end to make the overall experience more favorably remembered (peak-end rule).

Avoid This

Don't solely define yourself by 'what you do,' as this can lead to identity paralysis if that activity is lost.

Don't believe in an unchangeable 'essence' of yourself, as this can lead to shame and limit your capacity for growth.

Don't exclusively surround yourself with like-minded people, as this can limit your perspective and reinforce biases.

Don't assume your present-day self will respond to future changes in the same way; acknowledge that big changes transform you.

Don't just vent during difficult times; ask friends to act as 'cognitive advisors' to challenge your narrative and reframe the situation.

Don't dismiss critical feedback from others; recognize that social input is valuable for self-awareness and impact on others.

Don't let early success foster complacency or attachment to a former identity if circumstances change.

Don't aim for perfection in goal achievement, as this can lead to giving up entirely after a minor setback.

Don't over-rely on emotional empathy, especially in demanding roles; cultivate cognitive empathy and empathic concern to prevent burnout.

Common Questions

Our early identity is heavily shaped by observing what is deemed successful in society and by the structures and biases imposed by our closest surroundings, a concept known as identity foreclosure, which can limit our desired achievements and beliefs until actively overcome. (Timestamp: 371)

Topics

Goal Setting Mental Health & Psychology Human Performance Mindset & Self-Improvement Change Management Personal Growth Burnout Prevention Cognitive Psychology Behavioral Science Identity Formation Intrinsic Drives

Mentioned in this video

People

Anne-Sophie Mutter

The violinist whose performance of the Beethoven Violin Concerto had a profound impact on Maya Shankar as a child.

Maya Shankar

Cognitive scientist, former senior advisor to the White House, founder of the White House Behavioral Science team, and host of the podcast 'A Slight Change of Plans.' She was formerly a concert violinist.

Dacher Keltner

Professor at UC Berkeley whose work defines the two criteria for an awe-inspiring experience: perceived vastness and a need for accommodation.

Jascha Heifetz

A renowned violinist, Maya Shankar mentions Itzhak Perlman, Midori, and Yo-Yo Ma as musical idols but does not reference Heifetz. This correction ensures accuracy with the transcript.

Itzhak Perlman

A renowned violinist, considered 'the best violinist in the world' by Maya Shankar, who invited her to be his private student.

Britney Spears

A pop singer whose music Maya Shankar found 'much cooler' than classical music during her teenage years.

Steven Pinker

Author of 'The Language Instinct,' whose book inspired Maya Shankar to pursue cognitive science.

Dan Gilbert

Researcher whose work describes the 'End of History Illusion,' where people acknowledge past change but believe their current self is permanent.

Amos Tversky

A cognitive psychologist whose work with Daniel Kahneman developed the 'peak-end rule' for memory processing.

Andrew Huberman

Host of the Huberman Lab podcast and a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

Reginald Dwayne Betts

A formerly incarcerated individual who became an internationally renowned scholar and MacArthur genius award winner after discovering poetry in prison.

Etheridge Knight

A poet, also formerly incarcerated, whose stirring poem about the criminal justice system in 'The Black Poets' inspired Reginald Dwayne Betts.

Yo-Yo Ma

A renowned cellist, mentioned by Maya Shankar as a musical idol who attended Juilliard.

Rick Rubin

A successful music producer mentioned by Andrew Huberman, who talks about staying connected to 'the source' of one's passion.

Richard Feynman

A Nobel Prize-winning physicist known for his ability to translate complex scientific subjects for general audiences, similar to what Maya Shankar's father did.

Ethan Kross

A researcher who studies how to tame mental chatter, recommending 'distancing techniques' like third-person self-talk.

Ayelet Fishbach

A friend and mentor of Maya Shankar at the University of Chicago, known for her work on goal setting and motivation.

Daryl Davis

A black jazz musician who de-radicalized dozens of people from white supremacist groups, including the Ku Klux Klan, using strategies corroborated by behavioral science.

Jamil Zaki

A friend of Maya Shankar at Stanford who researches different types of empathy (emotional, cognitive, and empathic concern) and their role in preventing burnout.

Katy Milkman

A professor at Wharton at the University of Pennsylvania, known for her research on the 'Fresh Start Effect' and 'Temptation Bundling' for goal achievement.

Daniel Kahneman

A Nobel laureate whose work, along with Amos Tversky, on the 'peak-end rule' describes how memories of experiences are processed.

Organizations

Oxford University

The university where Dr. Maya Shankar completed her PhD thesis as a Rhodes Scholar.

White House Behavioral Science Team

A team founded and chaired by Dr. Maya Shankar, applying cognitive science insights to public policy.

Yale Law School

The institution Reginald Dwayne Betts attended after his time in prison and his poetic pursuits.

Stanford University Bing Nursery School

Location of a famous study mentioned by Andrew Huberman about intrinsic motivation and rewards.

Department of Veterans Affairs

A government agency Maya Shankar worked with to translate behavioral science insights into interventions for veterans.

Ku Klux Klan

A white supremacist hate group, members of which Daryl Davis convinced to change their minds.

Wharton School

The business school at the University of Pennsylvania where Katy Milkman is a professor.

Stanford University

The institution where Dr. Andrew Huberman is a professor and where Dr. Maya Shankar completed a post-doctoral fellowship.

White House

Where Dr. Maya Shankar served as a senior advisor and founded/chaired the Behavioral Science team.

Yale University

The institution where Dr. Maya Shankar completed her undergraduate training.

Concepts

Rhodes Scholar

A prestigious international postgraduate award for students to study at the University of Oxford.

Suzuki method

A music teaching philosophy that emphasizes learning by ear, which Maya Shankar used for violin and Andrew Huberman failed at.

Media

A Slight Change of Plans

Dr. Maya Shankar's podcast, where she explores strategies for better managing change by combining science and storytelling.

Beethoven Violin Concerto

A piece of music that evoked an awe-inspiring, transcendental experience for Maya Shankar when she was 11 or 12 years old, performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter.

Companies

Eight Sleep

A company that makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capabilities to optimize sleep temperature.

MTV

Maya Shankar stumbled upon MTV as a teenager, causing her to question her dedication to classical music, representing her 'teenage rebellion.'

Inside Tracker

A personalized nutrition platform that analyzes blood and DNA data to help individuals understand their bodies and achieve health goals.

Studies & Research

Harvard University

Where Maya Shankar's father did his postdoc in physics at the Society of Fellows.

Locations

New Haven

Where Maya Shankar grew up and her mom approached the concert master of a symphony.

New York City

A city Andrew Huberman visited as a child, describing it as an 'awe-inspiring human tropical reef,' and where Maya Shankar's mom barged into Juilliard.

India

Maya Shankar's mother's home country, where she felt stifled by the environment as a young woman.

Supplements

AG1

A vitamin, mineral, and probiotic drink with adaptogens, taken daily by Andrew Huberman to meet foundational nutrition needs and buffer stress.

Vitamin K2

Mentioned as part of a special offer from AG1, often paired with D3.

Vitamin D3

Mentioned as part of a special offer from AG1, often paired with K2.

Momentous Supplements

A supplement company partnered with the Huberman Lab podcast, offering products for sleep, hormone support, and focus, with a 20% discount for listeners.

Products

Maui Nui Venison

A company offering nutrient-dense and delicious red meat, including ground venison, steaks, jerky, and bone broth.

Books

The Black Poets

A book of poetry that Reginald Dwayne Betts read in prison, which inspired him to pursue poetry and helped him define a new identity.

The Language Instinct

A pop science book by Steven Pinker that Maya Shankar read, which became a turning point in her life and sparked her interest in cognitive science.