Key Moments
E43: Innovative venture strategies, Zymergen's implosion, Square acquires Afterpay & more
Key Moments
Venture funding strategies, Zymergen's failure, Square's Afterpay acquisition, and financial deplatforming discussed.
Key Insights
Innovative venture strategies include internal markups, venture studios, and deployment tactics, with a focus on specialization.
Zymergen's implosion highlights the challenges of deep tech, the need for product-market fit, and the risks of over-hyped narratives.
Square's acquisition of Afterpay for $30 billion is seen as a move to consolidate financial services and enhance its marketplace.
INNOVATIVE VENTURE STRATEGIES AND VENTURE STUDIOS
The discussion begins with an overview of innovative venture strategies, including internal markups, the concept of venture studios, and diverse deployment strategies. Friedberg highlights his 'production board' as a venture studio focused on synthetic biology, emphasizing the importance of deep expertise and a specific focus rather than trying to 'boil the ocean.' Chamath supports this, noting that such specialization gives investors confidence due to the entrepreneur's execution capability and clear swim lane, making it easier to fit into a portfolio.
THE IMPLOSION OF ZYMERGEN
Zymergen's public failure is dissected, illustrating the perils of deep tech. The company promised to revolutionize manufacturing through synthetic biology but struggled to find product-market fit and commercial viability. Despite raising significant capital, including from SoftBank, they failed to deliver on product revenue, ultimately leading to a stock crash and CEO departure. This serves as a cautionary tale about the difficulty of achieving unit economics in deep tech and the dangers of hyping a narrative without concrete results.
FINANCIAL DEPLATFORMING AND THE POWER OF FINTECH
A significant portion of the conversation revolves around financial deplatforming and the consolidation of power within fintech. PayPal's controversial policy of banning certain search terms, influenced by groups like the ADL, raises concerns about financial access being weaponized. The discussion warns that this could extend to denying people livelihoods, drawing parallels to social media deplatforming and emphasizing the need for regulatory scrutiny.
SQUARE'S ACQUISITION OF AFTERPAY
Square's $30 billion acquisition of Afterpay is analyzed as a strategic move to consolidate its position in the financial services marketplace. The deal is seen as enabling Square to offer more integrated buy-now-pay-later options for merchants and consumers, strengthening its two-sided marketplace. This move is framed within the broader trend of financial services convergence, where companies are consolidating banking, lending, trading, and crypto services.
THE CHALLENGES OF DEEP TECH AND VENTURE CAPITAL
The conversation delves into the ethical and practical challenges of investing in deep tech, using examples like Theranos and Nikola. The hosts highlight the role of compelling narratives in driving investment, sometimes at the expense of rigorous due diligence. They emphasize that while narratives are powerful, especially in early-stage investing, later-stage investments must be grounded in irrefutable metrics and product-market fit to avoid fraud and protect employees and investors.
INVESTOR RESPONSIBILITY AND MARKET HYGIENE
The consensus is that investors, particularly those deploying large sums of other people's money, have a responsibility to conduct thorough diligence. The discussion criticizes the practice of marking up one's own investments and stresses the importance of milestone-based financing. The examples of Zymergen and Nikola underscore that suspending disbelief, especially in deep tech, can lead to spectacular failures and significant financial losses for many, despite the compelling stories told.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Products
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●Books
●Concepts
●People Referenced
Public Market Rewards for Companies
Data extracted from this episode
| Strategy | Description | Example Companies |
|---|---|---|
| Incrementally acquire or build adjacent features | Continuously add features to consolidate services, rewarding market cap growth. | Square (Afterpay), Goldman Sachs (BNPL), Apple (BNPL) |
| Flip costs into revenue | Convert significant expense lines into new revenue-generating businesses. | Amazon (Kindle, Basics, Fire, Echo, AWS, Prime, Payments) |
Financial Services Categories by Retention and Profit
Data extracted from this episode
| Category | Order of Retention (Longest to Shortest) | Order of Profit Generation per Customer (Highest to Lowest) |
|---|---|---|
| Banking | 1st | 5th |
| Lending | 2nd | 3rd |
| Trading | 3rd | 1st |
| Crypto | 4th | 2nd |
| Insurance | 5th | 4th |
Common Questions
The Production Board (TPB) is David Friedberg's primary vehicle for incubating new businesses and making investments. Friedberg aims for absolute value creation by building businesses with internal resources, focusing on synthetic biology, and attracting great talent to solve complex problems.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
Mentioned as the platform where Ari Levy, a journalist, wrote a piece about The Production Board's funding.
A venture firm mentioned for its strategy of rapid fund-raising and deployment, focusing on the velocity of money and scaling capital.
Fined Tether $18 million and banned them from operating in New York, adding to concerns about the stablecoin's legitimacy.
One of the co-leaders of The Production Board's latest funding round.
A venture studio referenced as having been really successful with a very specific prototypical web 1.0 business model.
Organization that has expanded its mission and been sued for putting individuals on lists, influencing PayPal's 'no-buy list' initiative.
A venture firm known for leading multiple rounds in a company they have high conviction in, and having incredible returns.
Recognizes federally licensed banks, a critical gatekeeper for companies seeking to consolidate financial services and gain a cheaper cost of capital.
Storied institution whose expanded mission to oppose extremism/white supremacy (beyond anti-Semitism) is criticized for influencing PayPal's 'no-buy list'.
One of the original e-commerce marketplaces on the web, founded by Jeff Fluhr.
Social audio application mentioned for its ephemeral conversations and poor audio quality, contrasted with Call-In's permanent, syndicated show format.
A company Mike Speiser was involved with, highlighting his track record.
Square's consumer business, which includes crypto and other financial services.
A podcasting plus social audio application incubated by David Sacks, doing well in private beta and offering long-tail podcasting capabilities.
Amazon's payment processing service, turning a payment expense into a revenue stream.
Amazon's cloud computing platform, which turned a technology expense into a significant revenue stream.
Venture firm where Keith Rabois is a General Partner, mentioned in the context of VCs also taking on operating roles.
A disgraced health technology company whose CEO was accused of fraud, used as an example of companies with grand narratives but lacking actual product.
David Friedberg's primary vehicle for incubating new businesses and making investments, which recently raised capital.
A venture studio known for success with a prototypical web 2.0 social business.
Electric vehicle manufacturer whose founder was indicted for lying and selling shares, cited as an example of spectacular implosions in deep tech due to fraud and hype.
A venture studio founded by Jack Abraham, highly praised for producing multiple unicorns due to Abraham's exceptional idea generation.
Venture firm where Mike Speiser is a partner, supporting his operator-VC model.
Cited as an example of massive overvaluation and investor suspension of disbelief, with billions invested despite an economically unviable, unscalable model.
An e-commerce platform that pays a substantial amount to Stripe for payment processing, highlighting the potential for companies to internalize these expenses.
A private equity firm cited as an example of an indelible brand scaling assets under management unbelievably.
A consumer company started by Mike Speiser in the early 2000s, later acquired by Yahoo.
An investment firm known for making large, often overvalued, seed investments, which contributed to Zymergen's inflated valuation and subsequent issues.
Company where Keith Rabois became CEO, showcasing the blurring of roles between VCs and founders.
Aerospace manufacturer and space transport services company founded by Elon Musk, cited as a deep tech business he successfully funded for many years.
A 'buy now, pay later' product acquired by Square for $30 billion, enabling Square to solidify its lending capabilities and increase sales for its merchants.
Streaming service that Disney is predicted to 'roll right over' after becoming a tech company itself.
A successful company that emerged from the Science venture studio model.
David Sacks' venture firm that closed its third fund totaling $1.12 billion, explicitly focused on SaaS and marketplaces.
A company Mike Speiser was involved with, highlighting his track record.
A synthetic biology company that went public at $31, reached $48, then saw its stock drop 70% after problems with its product pipeline and revenue projections were announced, with its founding CEO stepping down.
A company acquired by PayPal in 2008 for $1 billion, which had a similar 'buy now, pay later' thesis to Afterpay.
An investment bank that is a great example of being forced to sell itself due to being unable to expand without key licenses in financial services.
Invested in The Production Board's holding company, becoming a minority shareholder and taking a board seat.
A prominent accelerator mentioned as having a model focused on cranking out many businesses, contrasted with The Production Board's focus on value creation.
Acquired Bix, a consumer company founded by Mike Speiser.
Electric vehicle company founded by Elon Musk, cited as a deep tech business that delivered revenue early on with the Roadster sports car.
Acquired Afterpay for $30 billion in an equity-based deal, consolidating its financial services marketplace and enhancing its lending tools for consumers and merchants.
A financial technology company mentioned in the context of large businesses like Shopify paying significant fees for payment processing, suggesting a trend towards in-housing these services.
Enterprise social networking service, founded by David Sacks, whose growth tactics influenced Craft Ventures' SaaS investment thesis.
Social media platform mentioned as the first site to kick off Donald Trump, setting a precedent for de-platforming that other tech platforms followed.
Aerospace company founded by Jeff Bezos, highlighted as an example of a deep tech venture funded for decades with personal capital.
An enterprise software company started by Mike Speiser, which went public with a valuation of $82 billion.
Accused of creating a 'no-buy list' by working with organizations like the ADL and SPLC to ban accounts of deemed undesirable individuals and groups, raising concerns about financial access and censorship.
The only major studio not gobbled up by a tech company, became a tech company itself, rolling over Netflix.
Space tourism company mentioned for its playbook of selling products in advance, similar to Tesla's early revenue generation.
A short-form streaming platform that lost a billion dollars without requiring scientific breakthroughs, failing due to a lack of market proof for its format.
Cited as the 'gold standard' for companies that turn costs into revenue, by creating new businesses (Kindle, AWS, Prime) out of previously large expenses.
General Partner at Craft Ventures, focused on marketplaces and founder/CEO of StubHub.
Co-founder of Quibi, seen as an odd choice due to her background as a late-stage CEO rather than a product innovator.
Founder of Idealab, known for his success with the venture studio approach.
Founding CEO of Zymergen, who stepped down after the company announced significant issues with its commercial product pipeline.
Referred to as the "one hype man on planet earth" good enough to pull off deep tech businesses, successfully funding Tesla and SpaceX.
Founder of Theranos, mentioned for her board composition, her relationship with COO Sunny Balwani, and her upcoming fraud trial.
Former U.S. President, whose de-platforming from Twitter is cited as a precedent for censorship by tech companies.
Host of 'This Week in Startups' and the podcast being recorded; discusses his travels and observations.
Partner at Sutter Hill Ventures, who incubated, started, and was the original head of Snowflake, demonstrating success as an operator-VC.
Wall Street Journal journalist who broke the Theranos story wide open, providing inside tips.
Founder of Atomic, described as a 'phenomenal idea guy' with 10x ideas, successful in the venture studio model.
Partner at Greylock, described as an incredible operator and business builder who continues that work while being a VC.
Co-founder of Google/Alphabet, with whom David Friedberg had discussions about doing something together before Alphabet invested in The Production Board.
Creative mind behind Quibi, who had an idea to build a studio for short-form video but failed to prove market interest before investing a billion dollars.
Co-host of the All-In Pod, announced closing a $1.1 billion fund for Craft Ventures focusing on SaaS and marketplaces, and is involved in the 'Call-In' audio app.
COO of Theranos, revealed to be in a relationship with Elizabeth Holmes, adding to the red flags of the company.
Partnered with Jack Abraham on OpenStore, decided to become CEO while still a GP at Founders Fund, illustrating the blurring lines between VC and founder roles.
Founder of Amazon and Blue Origin, mentioned for self-funding Blue Origin for 20 years, demonstrating significant personal investment in deep tech.
Co-host, who asked David Friedberg for questions about Zymergen prior to an interview, was confounded by the business model, and called out Theranos as a fraud on CNBC.
Journalist who wrote about The Production Board's funding, described as an 'old school legit journalist' and fan of the podcast.
Former U.S. President, cited as a successful Republican who busted up cartels and fought for common Americans, presented as a playbook for modern Republicans to oppose tech monopolies.
CEO of Snowflake, described as a legend who took the company public.
CEO of PayPal, called out to be questioned by Congress about PayPal's 'no-buy list' initiative and the denial of financial access.
Author of 'Sapiens', whose work on narratives defining human societies influenced David Sacks' approach to VC investing.
CEO of Twitter and Square, noted for holding the power to deny people's speech on a major speech platform and access to a major consumer payments platform, raising concerns about power accumulation.
Amazon's private label brand, cited as an example of turning product cost into a revenue stream.
Amazon's subscription service, which turned a marketing expense into a revenue stream.
Amazon's smart speaker line, cited as an example of turning product cost into a revenue stream.
Amazon's line of tablets and streaming devices, cited as an example of turning product cost into a revenue stream.
An e-reader launched by Amazon, cited as an example of turning product cost into a revenue stream.
More from All-In Podcast
View all 376 summaries
76 minTwo Legendary Founders: Travis Kalanick & Michael Dell Live from Austin, Texas
81 minIran War, Oil Shock, Off Ramps, AI's Revenue Explosion and PR Nightmare
61 minThey're Opening the Stock Market to Everyone. Here's What That Actually Means
64 min“This is Bibi’s War” - Harvard’s Graham Allison on the Influences and Endgame of the Iran War
Found this useful? Build your knowledge library
Get AI-powered summaries of any YouTube video, podcast, or article in seconds. Save them to your personal pods and access them anytime.
Try Summify free