What led Tony Fadell to quit caffeine and soda?

Tony Fadell quit caffeine and soda after overdosing on Diet Cokes in his 20s while working at General Magic. He was drinking 8 to 12 Diet Cokes a day, which he realized was having a detrimental effect on his health. He quit cold turkey, enduring three weeks of 'insane headaches' as part of a larger life reset.

How did Tony Fadell learn sales and presentation skills, apart from his technical abilities?

Tony Fadell learned sales and presentation skills from his father, a head salesman for Levi Strauss & Co., by observing him and receiving tips. Later, after the failure of General Magic, he intentionally learned about marketing, finance, and business languages to better communicate ideas. Mentorship from Steve Jobs further honed his ability to tell compelling stories and use effective analogies.

What was General Magic, and why did it fail?

General Magic was an ambitious Silicon Valley company that aimed to create what was essentially the iPhone about 15 years too soon. It failed due to being far ahead of its time in technology (slow processors, short battery life, no internet or multimedia infrastructure) and a lack of discipline regarding customer, product definition, timeline, and market strategy.

How did Tony Fadell recover and transform after the failure of General Magic?

After General Magic's failure, Tony Fadell underwent a holistic reboot. He sought therapy with a psychologist for a year and a half to develop self-awareness, empathy, and better social interaction skills, addressing root causes rather than just symptoms. He also redesigned his lifestyle, incorporating consistent exercise, a plant-based diet, and prioritizing work-life balance.

What did Tony Fadell learn from Steve Jobs about product development and presentation?

Tony Fadell learned the supreme importance of storytelling and using great analogies to relate to people on their level, whether for products, software, or internal processes. He emphasized that an effective analogy or concise tagline, like '1000 songs in your pocket' for the iPod, gives listeners a 'superpower' to understand and reiterate key messages.

What is the 'get bored' philosophy, and how did it lead to Nest?

The 'get bored' philosophy is Tony Fadell's recommendation for experienced professionals to take a deliberate pause (3-6 months ideally) between major career chapters. This break from the daily grind fosters new inspiration by allowing the mind to wander and observe new problems. For Fadell, a year and a half of global travel with his family, living in different homes, directly led to the recognition of universal housing problems and the idea for Nest.

Why is Tony Fadell so concerned about plastic waste, especially recycling?

Tony Fadell became viscerally concerned about plastic waste after observing its pervasive presence in Southeast Asia. He explains that 'recyclable' labels are often misleading, with most plastics being buried or burned, producing micro and nano plastics that persist for 500 years. These tiny plastics enter the environment and human bodies, potentially causing inflammation and accumulating toxins. He advocates for banning single-use plastics and developing truly consumer-compostable, bio-waste-based materials.

What is Future Shape and what is its mission?

Future Shape is Tony Fadell's family investment vehicle that invests in and mentors over 200 companies globally. Its mission is to find entrepreneurs developing deep technologies to solve critical planet and society-level problems, support green initiatives, and empower small and medium-sized businesses. Fadell considers himself a 'mentor with money,' providing guidance and resources.

What self-care practices does Tony Fadell prioritize?

Tony Fadell's self-care includes a strict vegetarian diet, avoiding caffeine and alcohol, and minimizing refined sugars. He exercises at least an hour a day, six to seven days a week, incorporating yoga (which he's practiced for 25 years), weight training, running, biking, skiing, and hiking. He views these workouts as 'moving meditation' and also emphasizes getting good sleep, using devices like the Euler.

What book does Tony Fadell frequently gift and why?

Tony Fadell regularly gifts 'In Praise of Shadows' by Jun'ichirō Tanizaki. He finds it fascinating because it compares pre-industrial and post-industrial Japanese life, highlighting subtle details like the sound of wooden spoons on wooden bowls versus metal spoons on porcelain, or the effect of natural versus artificial light. He believes it teaches readers to remain curious beginners, noticing details they previously overlooked.

How does Tony Fadell approach decision-making, balancing emotion and logic?

Inspired by 'Thinking, Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahneman, Tony Fadell recognizes both logical and emotional systems in decision-making. While the book advocates for rational thought, Fadell believes it's crucial to understand which type of decision is being made. He uses a blend, acknowledging that some decisions, like proposing to his wife, can be excellent 'snap decisions' driven by emotion and intuition rather than purely logical analysis.

Key Moments

Tony Fadell — On Building the iPod, iPhone, Nest, and a Life of Curiosity | The Tim Ferriss Show

Tim Ferriss

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Dec 23, 2019|28,581 views|503|48

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Tony Fadell discusses life lessons, product building (iPod, iPhone, Nest), and his journey of continuous learning and curiosity.

Key Insights

Eliminating alcohol and caffeine significantly improved Fadell's well-being and clarity.

Early entrepreneurial experiences and learning to communicate in others' languages were crucial for his career.

General Magic failed due to being too early technologically, and a lack of discipline and focus.

Steve Jobs taught Fadell the power of storytelling and creating simple, impactful taglines.

Taking intentional 'boredom' breaks allows for reflection, inspiration, and career redirection.

Addressing environmental issues like plastic waste requires innovative design and materials, not just recycling.

PERSONAL HABITS AND LIFEPhilosophy

Tony Fadell shared his personal journey of adopting healthier habits, notably quitting alcohol and caffeine. His decision to stop drinking alcohol, prompted by a trip to Saudi Arabia, led to significantly improved sleep and overall well-being. Similarly, a period of consuming excessive diet sodas in his twenties led him to quit caffeine cold turkey, which, despite causing severe headaches, initiated a process of life changes. These experiences underscore his focus on self-awareness and optimizing his physical and mental state.

THE ROOTS OF INNOVATION AND COMMUNICATION

Fadell's ability to both build and present products stems from his upbringing and early experiences. His father, a successful salesman for Levi's, provided early lessons in understanding customer needs and building relationships. After the crucial failure of General Magic, Fadell consciously worked to understand different languages of business, finance, and marketing, recognizing that effective communication involves translating ideas into terms others understand. Mentorship from Steve Jobs further refined these skills, emphasizing persuasive storytelling and clear communication.

GENERAL MAGIC: A VISION AHEAD OF ITS TIME

General Magic, a pioneering attempt to create a handheld computing and communication device akin to the iPhone, ultimately failed. Fadell attributes this to several factors: the technology was not yet ready (lack of digital networks, slow processors, poor battery life), and the company suffered from a lack of discipline. They tried to build too much independently, from their own chips to software, without leveraging existing infrastructure. While a commercial failure, it was a significant learning experience for those involved.

ENCOUNTERING STEVE JOBS AND LEARNING THROUGH REBOOT

Fadell's first encounter with Steve Jobs, a significant figure in his career, occurred at a birthday party. He was initially starstruck, having heard many stories about Jobs's intense personality and genius. The post-General Magic period was a 'reboot' where Fadell focused on self-improvement. This involved intensive reading, seeking feedback, attending management classes, and notably, undergoing therapy for about 1.5 years. This deep dive into self-understanding, coupled with the experiences at General Magic, provided the foundation for his subsequent leadership roles.

TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADERSHIP AND BUILDING NEST

After General Magic, Fadell took on a leadership role at Philips, building a team from scratch and learning to manage effectively, admitting he was initially a poor manager. This experience fueled his journey of learning about leadership and self-reflection. Later, after leaving Apple, he and his wife took a year and a half to travel the world with their young children. This sabbatical, intended to 'get bored' and gain perspective, led directly to the idea for Nest. Experiencing common household problems in different countries sparked the concept for a smart home device.

THE POWER OF STORYTELLING AND COUNTERINTUITIVE BETS

Fadell learned the importance of storytelling from Steve Jobs. This involves using analogies and creating narratives to make complex ideas understandable and compelling. A prime example is the iPod project, a counterintuitive bet made when Apple was financially precarious. Jobs's unwavering support and Fadell's relentless drive, coupled with simple, powerful messaging like '1,000 songs in your pocket,' were key to its eventual success against numerous internal obstacles and market skepticism.

ADVOCATING FOR SUSTAINABILITY AND PLASTIC-FREE SOLUTIONS

Fadell's travels, particularly in Southeast Asia, exposed him to the pervasive problem of plastic waste. He emphasizes that recycling is insufficient and often misleading; the real issue lies in our use of single-use plastics and material design. He advocates for innovative, consumer-compostable materials as the true 'holy grail' for packaging, distinguishing them from 'greenwashed' recyclable or industrially compostable options. Future Shape, his investment firm, actively seeks and supports companies developing these deep technologies to address environmental challenges.

FUTURE SHAPE: MENTORSHIP AND DEEP TECHNOLOGY INVESTMENT

Future Shape, Fadell's family investment vehicle, operates as 'mentors with money,' supporting entrepreneurs and companies focused on deep technologies. They invest in and mentor over 200 startups globally, aiming to help fix the planet and enable businesses. Their approach is hands-on, providing guidance through various lifecycle stages, leveraging their experience to foster innovation and positive change. This mirrors Fadell's own journey of being mentored and now passing that knowledge on.

PERSONAL GROWTH AND NAVIGATING IMPATIENCE

Fadell continuously seeks to place himself in positions of curiosity and beginner's mind, even in unfamiliar fields like food science or material innovation. Despite facing personal struggles with heavy analytics and long-form writing, he actively manages his impatience. He differentiates between process-driven delays and discovery-driven timelines, advocating for direct communication and finding balance through practices like yoga, running, and mindful exercise, which he refers to as 'Tony time' and moving meditation.

SELF-CARE AND CURATED WISDOM

Key self-care practices for Fadell include a whole-foods vegetarian diet, daily exercise for at least an hour (including 25 years of yoga), and prioritizing sleep, using devices like the Oura ring. He regularly gifts 'In Praise of Shadows,' a short book that illuminates the impact of subtle details like lighting, and 'Thinking, Fast and Slow' by Daniel Kahneman, which provides insights into decision-making. These curated gifts reflect his interest in thoughtful observation and understanding the human mind.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Supplements

●Products

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

Tony Fadell stopped drinking alcohol after a two-week trip to Saudi Arabia before he turned 40. During that time, he realized he felt significantly better, slept sounder, and woke up without a fog. He concluded that alcohol's calories, its tendency to make him eat more dessert, and the resulting disturbed sleep from processing alcohol sugars made it not worth the negative effects as he got older.

Topics

Mindset & Self-Improvement Technology & Innovation Business & Entrepreneurship Leadership Development Startup Culture Product Design Personal Growth Communication Skills Career Transitions

Mentioned in this video

People

Andy Hertzfeld

One of the principal software developers of the Macintosh and a key figure at General Magic; Tony Fadell first met Steve Jobs at Andy's birthday.

Bill Atkinson

Mentioned as one of the key figures who created the Macintosh alongside Andy Hertzfeld and Susan Kare.

Michael Dell

The founder of Dell, who famously suggested Apple should 'pack up and go home' before the success of the iPod.

Scott Belsky

A mutual friend of Tony Fadell and Tim Ferriss who introduced them and provided suggested topics for the interview.

Susan Kare

Mentioned as one of the key figures who created the Macintosh alongside Andy Hertzfeld and Bill Atkinson.

Sondra Card

A friend and colleague from General Magic who helped Tony Fadell through his dark and lonely period after the company's failure.

Jeff Robin

The person from whom Apple bought iTunes.

Daniel Kahneman

A Nobel laureate and author of 'Thinking, Fast and Slow', whose experiments Tim Ferriss participated in as an undergrad.

Steve Jobs

Co-founder of Apple, who mentored Tony Fadell and was the 'absolute master' of presenting ideas and making counterintuitive bets like the iPod.

Jun'ichirō Tanizaki

The author of 'In Praise of Shadows', a book Tony Fadell finds fascinating due to its comparison of pre-industrial and post-industrial life in Japan.

Didi Young

The head of HR at General Magic who Tony Fadell persistently contacted to secure a job at the company.

Walt Mossberg

A journalist with whom Steve Jobs demonstrated an analogy for the Mac on stage, comparing it to 'bringing a glass of ice water to somebody in hell'.

Elliot Soloway

Tony Fadell's professor at the University of Michigan with whom he co-founded Constructive Instruments.

Companies

Macy's

A department store mentioned as a hypothetical retailer where Tony Fadell's father might have had sales meetings.

Nest

A smart home company co-founded by Tony Fadell, whose idea came during his travels and observations in different homes around the world.

Constructive Instruments

A software startup Tony Fadell co-founded in college, focusing on educational multimedia software.

Impossible Foods

A company that Future Shape has invested in, prompting Tony Fadell to learn about food science.

Panasonic

One of the big companies that was a licensee of General Magic, working on creating the device and service.

The company Steve Jobs was running when Tony Fadell first met him at Andy Hertzfeld's birthday.

Future Shape

Tony Fadell's family investment vehicle that backs entrepreneurs and companies developing deep technologies to solve global problems and support small businesses.

Bloomingdale's

A department store mentioned as a hypothetical retailer where Tony Fadell's father might have had sales meetings.

Quality Computer

Tony Fadell's high school startup, selling Apple II peripherals and writing software.

Philips

A General Magic licensee where Tony Fadell pitched his product idea and was hired to lead a new team in Silicon Valley.

Levi Strauss & Co.

The company Tony Fadell's father worked for as a sales executive for over 30 years, during a time when Levi's jeans were a sought-after commodity.

Modern Meadow

A company invested in by Future Shape, which creates leather without cows, challenging Tony Fadell to learn about growing skin without an organism.

Organizations

Sony

One of the big companies that was a licensee of General Magic, working on creating the device and service.

The Guardian

The source of an article quoted by Tim Ferriss, which mentioned Tony Fadell's goal of getting 'bored' after leaving Apple.

Products

ChiliPad

A sleep device that the Euler device is compared to, being its 'next generation'.

Macintosh

An Apple computer that Tony Fadell was a big fan of and learned deeply about its craft and the team behind it.

Apple II

An early personal computer that Tony Fadell was a passionate geek about since the 70s, influencing his early career.

Oura Ring

A wearable device used by Tim Ferriss to track heart rate variability, resting heart rate, and sleep quality, revealing the negative impact of alcohol.

iPhone

A highly successful Apple product that Tony Fadell also worked on, which built upon the success and lessons learned from the iPod.

Diet Coke

A caffeinated soft drink that Tony Fadell overdosed on in his 20s, consuming 8-12 per day before quitting caffeine cold turkey.

65816 processor

A processor that Tony Fadell reverse-engineered and made a new version of for the Apple II GS in college.

iPod

A revolutionary music player that Tony Fadell was brought in to lead the development of at Apple, which was a risky but ultimately successful bet for the company.

Euler

A sleep device, described as the next generation ChiliPad, that Tony Fadell swears by and gifts to friends for better sleep quality.

Books

Thinking, Fast and Slow

A book by Daniel Kahneman that Tony Fadell often revisits to understand how the brain works, particularly regarding logical and emotional decision-making.

MacWeek

A magazine that Tony Fadell read to follow tech news, specifically the 'rumor mill' column which led him to General Magic.

Who Moved My Cheese?

A simple book recommended by Tony Fadell for understanding how to adapt to changes that are out of one's control.

In Praise of Shadows

A small book by Jun'ichirō Tanizaki that Tony Fadell regularly gifts, offering insights into pre-industrial Japanese life and the appreciation of subtle details.

The Road Less Traveled

A book about psychology that Tony Fadell read during his period of self-reflection and personal growth after General Magic.

Getting to Yes

A book recommended by Tony Fadell for communication and conflict resolution, focusing on storytelling and finding common ground.

Concepts

Dulcimer

The code name for the iPod project during its early development at Apple.

Pocket Crystal

The code name for General Magic's ambitious project, an early precursor to the modern smartphone.

MP3

The audio file format that was gaining popularity when Apple decided to develop the iPod, as existing MP3 players were of poor quality.

Locations

Lake Tahoe

Where Tony Fadell was remotely designing a house, an experience that contributed to the ideas for Nest.

Saudi Arabia

The country where Tony Fadell stopped drinking alcohol for two weeks before turning 40, leading to significant improvements in his well-being.

Southeast Asia

A region where Tony Fadell and his family now spend a lot of time, and where he observed the pervasive problem of plastics.

Paris

A city where Tony Fadell and his family lived during their world travels and eventually decided to move to permanently.

Indonesia

A country in Southeast Asia where Tony Fadell viscerally experienced the plastic waste problem, with takeout food often wrapped in banana leaves.

Supplements

Yerba mate

A caffeinated beverage that Tim Ferriss drinks, prompting discussion about Tony Fadell's avoidance of caffeine and alcohol.

Media

TED Talk

Tony Fadell's TED talk, where he discusses habituation and the importance of looking at things with beginner's eyes.

Software & Apps

Windows PC

The dominant personal computer platform that Apple was struggling to compete with before the iPod and iTunes.

iTunes

Apple's music management software, which was bought in early 2000 and began to gain traction, leading to the need for a dedicated device like the iPod.