Jeff Kaplan: World of Warcraft, Overwatch, Blizzard, and Future of Gaming | Lex Fridman Podcast #493

An open world, procedural map survival game with intense player-versus-player (PvP) combat, known for its high highs and low lows due to permanent loss of items upon death and base raiding.

One of the first coin-operated arcade games Jeff Kaplan played, trying to get the high score with his brother.

A classic Nintendo game that profoundly impacted Jeff Kaplan, revealing deeper possibilities in games when he learned about its secrets.

A life simulation game series that influenced the 'by day' business and house-building elements of the Titan project, with Matt Brown (creative director on The Sims) joining the Titan team.

A series of action-adventure games with open-world driving, influencing the driving mechanics envisioned for the Titan project.

A popular in-game soccer mode within Overwatch, created by developers Mike Heiberg and Dave Adams.

Declared by Jeff Kaplan as the 'greatest game ever made,' praised for its thoughtful design, cohesive art, integration with the Switch, and interactive world.

A massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) by Blizzard Entertainment, set in the fantasy world of Azeroth. It revolutionized MMORPGs with its quest-driven leveling and became one of the biggest games of all time.

A series of RPG PC games by Richard Garriott (Lord British), known for its rich worlds and player agency, profoundly influencing Jeff Kaplan.

An arena shooter where players could choose John Cash as a character skin, further cementing his legendary status.

A series of single-player action-adventure games by Naughty Dog, cited as preeminent examples of handcrafted single-player experiences.

An expansion for World of Warcraft, considered by many to be one of the greatest, where Jeff Kaplan served as game director.

A StarCraft spin-off game that was in development and being prepared for BlizzCon 2005.

A farm simulation game series that influenced the 'by day' business and house-building elements of the Titan project.

A cooperative zombie shooter, whose 'Charger' enemy inspired Reinhardt's charge ability in Overwatch.

A Call of Duty title Jeff Kaplan played extensively during his time off after leaving Blizzard, achieving the 'Dark Matter Ultra' achievement.

A quirky video game where the player rolls a ball to collect objects, used by Jeff Kaplan as an analogy for how video games as an art form incorporate elements from previous art forms.

An early first-person shooter that allowed LAN and modem connections, providing Jeff Kaplan's first magical experience of playing against other people online.

A hardcore tactical shooter with a complex loot system, mentioned as an example of a game with designed loot drops.

An action RPG by Blizzard, whose game director, Jay Wilson, faced severe online criticism that led him to temporarily retire from game development.

A Call of Duty title from which Tracer's dual G18 pistols were inspired, and praised for its map design.

A series of first-person shooters, particularly Call of Duty 4 and Modern Warfare 2, praised for their 'gun feel' and multiplayer map design, and influencing Overwatch's shooter mechanics.

A popular battle royale game mentioned by executives as a benchmark for revenue and team size, used to pressure the Overwatch team despite its different nature.

A new open-world online multiplayer action and survival game set in an alternate history 1800s Gold Rush era California, currently in development by Jeff Kaplan's new studio, Kintsugiyama.

A classic arcade game from the 'golden era of coin-op' that Jeff Kaplan remembers playing with his uncle as a child.

An early arcade console game that impressed Jeff Kaplan with its ability to be played on a TV at a friend's house.

An influential text-based adventure game from Infocom that holds a special place in Jeff Kaplan's heart, praised for its power of imagination.

Blizzard's ambitious, ultimately canceled MMORPG project, intended to succeed World of Warcraft, which suffered from scope creep, lack of cohesion, and engineering failures.

The first expansion for World of Warcraft, which Jeff Kaplan and Tom Chilton led the design for.

An MMORPG created by Carbine Studios, formed by a group of developers who left Blizzard after World of Warcraft shipped, unhappy with the game.

An MMORPG announced around the same time as World of Warcraft, feared by the WoW team due to its Star Wars IP and smart designers.

A tactical first-person shooter known for its low player survivability (low Time To Kill) compared to Overwatch's more arcade-like approach.

A foundational massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) released in 1999, set in the world of Norrath, known for raid content and guild systems. Jeff Kaplan spent thousands of hours playing it and met his wife through it.

A pioneering massively multiplayer online game that predated EverQuest, known for its player-driven griefing mechanics and complex social interactions.

A highly influential first-person shooter that defined online gaming for Jeff Kaplan, known for its refined systems and strong community.

A first-person shooter that also offered early online multiplayer capabilities and shipped with an editor, inspiring Jeff Kaplan to create levels.

A pioneering 3D game by id Software that transported players into a first-person perspective, creating a profound sense of immersion for Jeff Kaplan.

A movie that Jeff Kaplan is a huge fan of, associating Doom with its themes and aesthetic.

A quest in World of Warcraft designed by Jeff Kaplan, famously hated by players due to its tedious page collection mechanics but holding emotional value for him.

The latest installment in Blizzard's action RPG series, praised for its loot system, world, and successful live game updates.

A single-player action-adventure game by Naughty Dog, cited as a preeminent example of handcrafted single-player experiences with tight directed gameplay.

A sandbox game known for its open-ended, non-directed gameplay, which can be divisive for players who prefer structure.

The expansion to Warcraft III, mentioned as part of Blizzard's lineup for BlizzCon 2005.

An MMORPG sequel that was highly anticipated by EverQuest fans around the time World of Warcraft was being developed.

Blizzard's MOBA game, to which many members of the disbanded Titan team were moved.

A popular MOBA game, whose logo was jokingly included in Jeff Kaplan's first pitch slide for Overwatch (then 'Monetized Shooter'), symbolizing a potential revenue model.

One of Jeff Kaplan's favorite games of all time, revered as a work of art for its brilliant game design, narrative, character development, and Tarantino-level dialogue, despite awkward controls for PC players.

An expansion for Diablo III, another project where former Titan team members were reassigned.

A highly influential class-based multiplayer shooter by Valve, originating as a Quake mod, which deeply influenced Overwatch's design.

The planned sequel that was initially envisioned as a PvE cooperative shooter with a campaign, but evolved away from the original vision due to executive pressure and Overwatch League commitments.

An Overwatch map set in Iraq, representing the team's effort to create a 'bright, hopeful version' of locations not typically seen as aspirational.

A classic Zelda game, used as a benchmark to highlight how Breath of the Wild managed to surpass previous excellent installments in the series.

A popular early console system, mentioned as a significant player in the early gaming era.

A video game console by Mattel that Jeff Kaplan and his brothers loved, getting free games through his dad's work.

A brand of whiskey Jeff Kaplan drank during a period of deep depression in his early adulthood.

A pistol from Modern Warfare 2 that inspired the dual-wield pistols used by Tracer in Overwatch.

The console for which Breath of the Wild was designed, praised for its seamless integration with the game's mechanics.

A revolutionary console that marked the 'next level' of gaming for Jeff Kaplan, especially with Super Mario Bros.

A personal computer platform Jeff Kaplan noted as being better for gaming than the IBM at the time.

A Terran air unit from the StarCraft universe, depicted in concept art for StarCraft Frontiers.

A brand of personal computers, mentioned as being better for gaming than IBM in Jeff Kaplan's youth.

The company that created the Zork series of text-based adventure games.

The original developer of EverQuest, later becoming Sony Online, where Brian Hook went to work.

A gas station with a Jack in the Box where Jeff Kaplan had his final, memorable interview at Blizzard.

A game development studio where Jeremy Craig is currently game directing.

An online forum where gamers often complain about matchmaking systems, which Jeff Kaplan used to monitor player feedback.

A live streaming platform that signed a significant media rights deal with Overwatch League, creating commitments for in-game integration.

The brand of PC Jeff Kaplan's parents bought, which he initially found disappointing for gaming compared to Amiga or Commodore.

A legendary video game developer responsible for iconic franchises like Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, World of Warcraft, and Overwatch, known for its commitment to polish and quality.

The name of Jeff Kaplan and Tim Ford's new game development studio, inspired by the Japanese art of Kintsugi, symbolizing beauty in imperfection and strength from past challenges.

The game company that developed the Legend of Zelda series, revered by Jeff Kaplan as the 'Mecca' and 'the best' in the industry for their consistent quality and innovation.

A client of Jeff Kaplan's father, which led to him receiving discounts and free games for the Intellivision.

The legendary game development company known for groundbreaking first-person shooters like Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Quake.

The company Verant Interactive became, which developed EverQuest.

Where Jeff Kaplan interned during undergrad, witnessing an 'unhealthy creative collaboration' in the film industry.

A fast-food restaurant where Jeff Kaplan had his final, unconventional interview for Blizzard.

A game development company known for having few dedicated designers, as everyone is considered a designer, and for its exceptional game writing.

A game developer known for creating highly-polished, narrative-driven single-player games like Uncharted and The Last of Us.

The parent company of Blizzard Entertainment, whose executive team placed significant revenue pressure on the Overwatch team, leading to Jeff Kaplan's departure.

The game developer known for Red Dead Redemption 2 and Grand Theft Auto, praised for their storytelling, world-building, and high-quality dialogue in games.

A legendary programmer and co-founder of id Software, credited with major breakthroughs in gaming engines, particularly for Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

An enchanter (Dalomin) in Jeff Kaplan's EverQuest guild, who later became a great friend and colleague at Blizzard, working on Overwatch.

Founder of Blizzard and the anonymous 'Barfa the Troll Warrior' whom Jeff Kaplan saved in EverQuest, leading to his job offer at Blizzard. Championed the Horde-Alliance split in WoW.

One of the core designers behind Hearthstone alongside Eric Dodds.

Art director for World of Warcraft who later left to co-found Red 5 Studios.

The composer Jeff Kaplan uses as an example of a creator who faced limited direct feedback during his lifetime, contrasting with the instant and widespread criticism of modern artists.

A producer who stopped Jeff Kaplan from pitching 'Monetized Shooter' to the team, leading to the name 'Overwatch' being coined on the spot.

Blizzard's COO in the early days, who was a 'finance guy who got it' and protected developers from corporate nonsense.

The lighting artist on The Legend of California team, whose work on sunsets and sunrises in the game is praised for its beauty and impact.

A literary influence for Jeff Kaplan during his writing career, later honored in the Green Hills of Stranglethorn quest.

Co-founder of Blizzard, present during Jeff Kaplan's interview process and later a key figure in Blizzard's success, including championing the Battle.net launcher.

Creative director on World of Warcraft, described as the 'heart and soul of Blizzard,' an inspirational storyteller and world-builder who immensely influenced WoW's design.

A legendary game designer quoted for his philosophy on fun: fun for the player, designer, and computer, and that games are a series of interesting choices.

Game director of Diablo III, who received so much online criticism that it significantly impacted him, leading him to retire from game development for a period.

A favorite designer of Jeff Kaplan, one of the original WoW encounter designers, whose off-the-cuff comment inspired the hero-based design of Overwatch.

A developer who worked with Mike Heiberg to create Lúcioball, the in-game soccer mode for Overwatch.

The poet mentioned by Jeff Kaplan who wrote many poems but left them to be discovered posthumously, representing a different approach to creation.

Co-founder of Blizzard, part of the early leadership alongside Allen Adham and Mike Morhaime.

A great designer on World of Warcraft, who later became the game director of Hearthstone, heavily involved in the quest interface design.

An id Software programmer (Quake III skin) who later worked at Blizzard and was a huge EverQuest player, leading to a 'fanboy' moment with Jeff Kaplan.

A brilliant game designer from Ultima Online, who worked on Star Wars Galaxies, recognized for his smart game design lectures.

His election day coincided with Jeff Kaplan's birthday and his departure from the WoW team to join Titan development.

A phenomenal game developer who wrote the Dark Forces engine, was production director on Diablo III, and a co-leader of the Crossworlds team, encouraging Jeff Kaplan to pitch Overwatch.

Creator of the Ultima series, known in-game as Lord British, celebrated for his world-building.

A literary influence for Jeff Kaplan, with his book '1984' being mentioned as an aspirational work.

A writer whose stories were largely unpublished during his lifetime and who requested their destruction, highlighting the personal nature of creation.

Roman Emperor (mentioned by host) whose rise from peasant to emperor is compared to Jeff Kaplan's journey from gamer to guild leader.

A 'psychotic wizard' who played in Jeff Kaplan's EverQuest guild and later worked at Blizzard.

A legendary Blizzard developer on the early World of Warcraft team.

The artist Jeff Kaplan imagines struggling with modern online criticism if he were a contemporary creator.

A designer who partnered with Jeff Kaplan to run World of Warcraft design after Rob Pardo left, bringing extensive Ultima Online experience.

A technical artist on the Titan team who experienced significant downtime due to engine issues, highlighting the project's technical failures.

A great character artist at Blizzard whose vision and art were instrumental in bringing Overwatch heroes to life, and whose concept art for StarCraft Frontiers inspired McCree.

A painter whose epic landscape pieces of California, discovered by Jeff Kaplan, inspired the visual design and lighting for The Legend of California.

An id Software programmer who left to work on EverQuest at Verant (later Sony Online), which prompted Jeff Kaplan to investigate the game.

Co-founder of id Software, credited alongside John Carmack for breakthroughs in early FPS games like Doom and Quake.

One of Jeff Kaplan's main influences as a writer, he even named his dog after him.

A literary influence for Jeff Kaplan during his creative writing pursuits.

A literary influence for Jeff Kaplan during his creative writing pursuits.

A writer who, at a young age, declared he would be the greatest writer of the 20th century, inspiring discussion about ego in creative pursuits.

Lead designer on Warcraft III, who was Jeff Kaplan's guild leader in EverQuest (Ariel) and later became a great friend and colleague at Blizzard.

One of the original designers on World of Warcraft, heavily involved in class and PvP design, and part of Jeff Kaplan's interview process.

One of the first five developers at Blizzard, who was part of Jeff Kaplan's final interview at a Jack in the Box.

Initially Blizzard's HR and Facilities contact, hired on the same day as Jeff Kaplan as a quest designer for World of Warcraft.

The team leader who ran the World of Warcraft team in its early days, before leaving to form Red 5 Studios.

The actor mentioned as an example of a public figure who can be easily insulted by many people online due to modern accessibility.

A stellar game programmer and possibly the first team member on Titan, responsible for the engine that eventually became the Overwatch engine.

An amazing game designer on the Overwatch team, known for his ability to visually sell ideas and who refined Jeff Kaplan's early Overwatch pitch deck.

Brilliant game designer and creative director on The Sims, who came over to work on the Titan project.

A great environment artist at Blizzard, who collaborated with Arnold Tsang on concept art for StarCraft Frontiers.

A designer who created McCree's 'High Noon' ultimate and worked on Lúcioball in Overwatch.

One of the visionaries of early Blizzard, credited for world-building alongside Chris Metzen.

An Overwatch hero who, along with Bastion, originated from the 'Ranger' class in Titan.

Jeff Kaplan's 'development soulmate' and a programmer who was an associate tech director on Overwatch, with whom Jeff co-founded Kintsugiyama.

His advice on never playing to the gallery and pushing beyond comfort zones was allegedly shared by Jeff Kaplan with his team when leaving Blizzard.

A literary magazine that gave encouraging feedback on one of Jeff Kaplan's rejection letters, providing him temporary hope.

The professional American football league, invoked by Overwatch League marketers as a comparison for its potential popularity and revenue, which Jeff Kaplan found unrealistic.

New York University, where Jeff Kaplan earned a Master's degree in creative writing, prior to his career in game design.

One of the three game ideas pitched after Titan's cancellation, Chris Metzen's vision for a universe focused on a neutral planet at the edge of the galaxy.

A Zerg unit from the StarCraft universe, depicted in concept art for StarCraft Frontiers.

A Japanese craft of repairing broken pottery with golden lacquer, which serves as the philosophical inspiration for Jeff Kaplan's new company, Kintsugiyama.

A concept Jeff Kaplan references to describe the negative online environment that can crush creators under a 'fire hose of criticism,' leading to brilliant talents receding.

One of the three game ideas pitched after Titan's cancellation, an MMO concept set in the StarCraft universe with players as lone prospectors on alien planets.

The ultimate ability of Overwatch hero McCree, designed by Mike Heiberg, praised for its simple yet effective design and implementation details like the tumbleweed.

A game genre that Overwatch is sometimes compared to due to its hero-based mechanics, but Jeff Kaplan prefers simplicity over complex orb-throwing explanations in MOBAs.

A 3D creation suite Jeff Kaplan learned to use for game development, despite not being an artist.

An AI art generation tool Jeff Kaplan has experimented with, finding it 'fun for non-artists' but generally producing 'weird and shitty' results compared to human artists.

A digital distribution platform for video games developed by Valve Corporation. The Legend of California is planned to be wishlisted and available for early access on Steam.

The game engine written by Ray Gresko, highlighting his significant engineering background.

A game engine that Jeff Kaplan learned by watching YouTube videos while developing his new game, The Legend of California.

An AI language model Jeff Kaplan used for mundane tasks like resizing images or trying to solve minor programming problems, noting its overconfidence but potential utility.

A graphics software Jeff Kaplan learned to use for game development, despite not being an artist.

Another AI model (like ChatGPT) that Jeff Kaplan has experimented with for creative tasks, noting its 'fever dream' quality.

A gaming news website Jeff Kaplan still reads, which introduced him to EverQuest through a .plan file update from id programmer Brian Hook.

A treatment Jeff Kaplan underwent for severe depression, describing it as an 'extreme pull-the-rip-cord' moment that helped him break out of his low point.

A graphics editing software Jeff Kaplan used to create images, mentioning a scenario where AI could help resize thousands of incorrectly sized images.

A life simulation video game series that influenced the 'by day' business and house-building elements of the Titan project.

A team-based hero shooter developed by Blizzard Entertainment, known for its diverse cast of heroes, vibrant world, and focus on teamwork. It emerged from the canceled Titan project.

A digital collectible card game developed by Blizzard, directed by Eric Dodds.

A national park in California whose iconic landscapes, depicted in Albert Bierstadt's paintings, inspired the world of The Legend of California.

A picturesque Greek island, used as an example of an aspirational location the Overwatch team would consider for maps.

The city that hosted the Olympics in 2016, prompting Overwatch's Summer Games event.