How did Co Carnage develop his on-stream persona?

Despite being naturally introverted, Co Carnage cultivated an energetic, extroverted persona for his streams. He sees this as a learned behavior to facilitate audience engagement and create a positive environment, rather than a reflection of his core personality.

What was the '2K the Dream' goal for Co Carnage's Twitch channel?

The '#2k the dream' was a community-focused goal where Co Carnage aimed to reach 2,000 subscribers. Achieving this milestone would provide financial stability, allowing him to stream full-time and enabling his wife to leave her corporate job.

What was Co Carnage's first game development project, and what happened?

Co Carnage's first game development project, funded by an $80,000 Kickstarter, ultimately failed. After missing multiple milestones, the project was shuttered because the team needed more funds or another Kickstarter, which Co Carnage felt would be taking advantage of his community.

How has the PR industry changed with the rise of creators?

The rise of creators has forced the PR industry to adapt, as traditional methods are less effective. Companies are increasingly relying on creators for promotion, and new services are emerging, even using AI, to navigate this evolving landscape and optimize spending.

What is Co Carnage's 'streamer's triangle' for choosing games?

The streamer's triangle consists of three points: 1) having fun playing the game, 2) how the game benefits the channel, and 3) the influence/reach achievable. Co Carnage aims to find games that hit the sweet spot in the middle of all three points.

How do viral memes and solid gameplay contribute to a game's success?

Games like Palworld and Baldur's Gate 3 demonstrate that viral marketing ('meme frosting') can hook players, but sustained success requires a strong core game. The meme captures attention, while quality gameplay retains players, turning fleeting interest into long-term engagement.

What are the key paradigm shifts in the gaming industry discussed?

Two major paradigm shifts are occurring: the influence of PR and creators on marketing, and changes in platform dynamics like Steam. This includes evolving release models like Early Access and the confusion around nomenclature, alongside developers experimenting with new ways to engage players and build communities.

The Truth About Growing on Twitch (Cohh Carnage Interview)

a16z

Gaming3 min read48 min video

Jun 12, 2024|135,646 views|5,315|386

cohh carnage cohhcarnage twitch twitch streamer ben ben cassell cassell cohhilition creator a16z a16z games a16 games

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Cohh Carnage discusses streaming success, game development, and the evolving PR landscape.

Key Insights

Building a successful Twitch channel requires thousands of hours of prep work and a strategic approach, not just luck.

Authenticity and genuine enjoyment of games are crucial for maintaining community engagement on Twitch.

The gaming industry is rapidly evolving, with new marketing strategies and the rise of AI in PR.

Game development is challenging, and balancing creative vision with market demands is a constant struggle.

Streaming success allows for influence in game development and marketing, but requires understanding one's own value.

The 'meme frosting' can be a powerful tool for attracting attention to games, but a strong core product is essential for long-term success.

THE PATH TO TWITCH SUCCESS

Cohh Carnage, or Ben Cassell, initially aspired to be a game developer and DJ, finding solace in online communities due to being an early adopter of gaming. His journey to becoming a prominent Twitch streamer wasn't immediate; it involved years of dedication and calculated risks. He emphasizes that success on the platform requires thousands of hours of preparation and strategic thinking, rather than relying solely on luck. This involved integrating skills from various past experiences, such as community management from guild leading, technical skills from IT, and performance aspects from DJing, all culminating in the collaborative environment of his stream.

CULTIVATING A COMMUNITY AND BRAND

Cohh Carnage views his Twitch channel as a self-created world where he fosters a positive and collaborative atmosphere. He models his channel after old-school chat rooms, prioritizing mutual respect, constructive discussions, and a welcoming environment for regulars. This deliberate community building has resulted in one of the largest moderated chats on Twitch. He understands the importance of consistent positive interaction, where new viewers are greeted and existing members feel valued, creating a sustained sense of belonging that transcends passive viewing.

THE EVOLUTION OF GAMING AND STREAMING

Having experienced the early internet, chat rooms, and initial game development, Cohh Carnage possesses a unique perspective on the evolution of online interactive entertainment. This deep understanding allows him to better navigate the current landscape, recognizing what aspects of technology and community engagement have been beneficial and where improvements are needed. His extensive background provides a foundation for understanding the nuances of building and sustaining a successful streaming career, distinguishing between fleeting trends and enduring community connections.

NAVIGATING THE BUSINESS OF GAMING

The interview delves into the business side of streaming and game development. Cohh Carnage highlights how his value as a streamer became apparent through interactions with management teams, revealing a hidden promotional and PR industry beneath the surface. He stresses the importance of streamers knowing their worth and understanding the market. He also discusses the critical process of vetting sponsorships, turning down a significant percentage of offers, particularly those involving gambling or outside his personal interests, emphasizing that the sponsorships a streamer accepts directly reflect on their brand and credibility.

THE CHALLENGES AND REDEMPTION IN GAME DEVELOPMENT

Cohh Carnage shares his personal journey in game development, including a Kickstarter failure that taught him the hard lesson that 'making games is hard.' He views his current project, 'Ember,' as a path to personal redemption. The success of 'Ember' and its delivery as a meaningful experience will mark a significant personal achievement. He also discusses the broader industry trend of 'community first' development, noting the risks associated with excessively heeding player feedback, which can dilute a developer's original vision. The success of games like 'Palworld' and 'Baldur's Gate 3' is attributed to their ability to combine a compelling core game with attention-grabbing elements.

THE DYNAMIC LANDSCAPE OF GAMING MARKETING

The conversation explores the shift in gaming marketing, moving from traditional PR to creator-led promotion and the influence of memes. Cohh Carnage notes that PR companies are struggling to adapt, with some even turning to AI for guidance. The effectiveness of 'meme frosting'—using viral elements to attract initial attention—is acknowledged, but he stresses that a strong underlying game product is essential for sustained success. He uses examples like 'Helldivers' and 'Palworld' to illustrate how unique, impactful marketing can significantly boost a game's reach, provided the game itself is robust and engaging.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Organizations

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

Co Carnage's journey into streaming began after a career pivot towards game development and discovering Twitch. He saw it as a way to combine his existing skills in community management, DJing, coding, and IT project management into one fulfilling career.

Topics

Twitch Streaming Streaming Strategy PR

Mentioned in this video

personToby's Gaming

A Twitch streamer whose substantial audience size Co Carnage observed, contributing to his understanding of the platform's growth potential.

organizationa16z

Venture capital firm where Co Carnage has connections, assisting in connecting him with his game development team.

personCo Carnage

Prominent Twitch streamer and content creator, formerly an aspiring game developer and DJ. Known for building a large, moderated community.

concept#2k the dream

The community-driven goal established by Co Carnage to reach 2,000 subscribers, which would enable his wife to quit her job and him to stream full-time.

gameBalatro

A highly successful indie game highlighted for its strong core gameplay, with speculation that additional 'meme frosting' could have amplified its sales further.

personDan's Gaming

A long-time Twitch streamer mentioned as an example of sustained success and community building, despite not always showing massive growth.

companyUnknown Worlds

Developer of Subnautica, highlighted for their successful Early Access model and responsiveness to player feedback.

gameEverQuest

An MMORPG that Co Carnage discovered, which was pivotal in showing him the social aspect of gaming and community building.

locationNorath

The in-game world of EverQuest, which Co Carnage humorously states he grew up in.

gameThe Culling

A game that initially succeeded on Twitch but lost its community after developers made too many changes based on vocal minority feedback.

gameHelldivers

A recent game praised for its developers' active engagement on Twitter, using the platform for communication and feedback.

personLethal Frag

A then-prominent Twitch streamer whose success inspired Co Carnage to understand the platform's potential as a full-time career.

gameEmber

The current game development project Co Carnage is working on, representing his personal redemption after a previous game development failure.

personBen Cassell

The real name of Co Carnage, discussed as the person behind the online persona.

softwareOBS

Streaming software used by Co Carnage to start his Twitch channel.

gameSubnautica

A game by Unknown Worlds known for a successful Early Access period, where player feedback significantly influenced its direction.

gameBaldur's Gate 3

A highly successful RPG known for its engaging character creator and controversial 'bear scene,' which generated significant viral PR and broad appeal.

gameDragon's Dogma

Mentioned for its character creator feature, which was released early and served as a promotional tool.

bookPalworld

bookCall of Duty