What is the connection between Trumpism and postmodernism?

The discussion suggests Trump's actions and rhetoric can be seen as a culmination of postmodernism, particularly in his disregard for objective truth and emphasis on personal feelings determining reality, aligning with a 'cult of authenticity'.

How does classical liberalism contrast with modern illiberalism?

Classical liberalism emphasizes individual rights, facts, and rule of law. Illiberalism, whether from the left or right, abandons these principles, focusing instead on tribal identities and power dynamics, making them remarkably similar in their disregard for core liberal tenets.

Why is Trump struggling to move past the Jeffrey Epstein scandal?

The Epstein story is seen as too politically valuable and juicy for MAGA figures to let go of, especially as Trump's long-term political future becomes uncertain. For figures like Bongino and Patel, admitting the story's lack of substance would mean admitting they misled their followers.

Does Donald Trump believe the Epstein allegations are true?

Goldberg believes Trump likely doesn't think there's evidence of him being on a blackmail list or having slept with underage girls. However, he suspects there's embarrassing information fueling the cover-up, which aligns with his own rhetoric about government conspiracies.

Why did Trump's base boo him at CPAC for taking credit for vaccines?

This incident, similar to the Epstein scandal's impact, highlighted a disconnect where Trump's action (taking credit for vaccines) clashed with a core belief of his base (anti-vaccine sentiment), causing cognitive dissonance and backlash.

Are the political extremes truly similar - the 'horseshoe theory'?

Goldberg agrees with horseshoe theory's premise that the political extremes share a lack of principles, conspiracy thinking, and a willingness to break norms. The core issue is their shared departure from classical liberalism and embrace of illiberalism.

What is the state of the Democratic Party currently?

The Democratic Party appeared feckless and bewildered until the Epstein story provided a political opening against Trump. Their current direction, exemplified by rallies from Sanders and AOC, is seen by some as potentially detrimental to future electoral success.

Political Extremism & Cracks in the MAGA Cult (Making Sense #428)

Sam Harris

Science & Technology4 min read32 min video

Aug 7, 2025|110,646 views|2,134|1,008

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Jonah Goldberg discusses Trump's second term, the "woke right," and the breakdown of norms.

Key Insights

Trump's current term shows more substantive policy action (for better or worse) than his first term.

A notable shift is the open embrace of perceived corruption and a disregard for pretense of normativity.

The 'woke right' or 'post-modern right' adopts postmodernist tactics, prioritizing narrative and power over truth claims.

Both political extremes exhibit illiberalism, characterized by tribalism, conspiracy thinking, and norm erosion.

The Epstein scandal highlights the cult of personality around Trump and the difficulty in controlling narratives within his movement.

The Democratic Party appears to be in a state of apathy and bewilderment, struggling to counter Republican strategies.

SURPRISES AND SUBSTANCE IN TRUMP'S SECOND TERM

Jonah Goldberg notes his surprise at the greater substance of Donald Trump's second term compared to his first. While Trump's first term was characterized by performative actions and claimed victories, the current term, despite certain policy not yet fully realized, is marked by more concrete actions. Goldberg admits he underestimated Trump's ability to achieve certain goals, such as those related to border control, and is taken aback by the swiftness of these actions. This shift towards substance, whether positive or negative, deviates from Goldberg's initial expectations.

THE DECLINE OF HYPOCRISY AS A GUARDRAIL

A striking observation is the cavalier acceptance of perceived corruption and a complete abandonment of the pretense of normative behavior. Goldberg contrasts this with the historical value of hypocrisy, where even lip service to an ideal maintained its standard. He argues that figures like Trump, by dispensing with the pretense of doing the right thing and being open about their motivations, bypass the accountability that hypocrisy typically entails. This lack of normativity, where loyalty tests are openly discussed and unqualified individuals are appointed, is a significant shock.

POSTMODERNISM AND THE 'WOKE RIGHT'

Goldberg posits that Trump's approach, particularly his disregard for objective truth and reliance on personal feelings determining reality, can be seen as a culmination of postmodernist thought. This is linked to the concept of the 'cult of authenticity,' where internal feelings are prioritized over external standards. The 'woke right' or 'post-modern right' is described as adopting similar tactics, de-linking political assertions from reality testing and focusing on winning narratives and social media momentum, thereby treating politics as a pure power relation.

ILLIBERALISM AS A COMMON THREAD IN EXTREMES

The discussion highlights the growing resemblance between the political extremes, particularly in their illiberalism. This shared trait manifests as a lack of fixed principles, susceptibility to conspiracy thinking, and a willingness to break norms essential for rational compromise. Goldberg, once critical of 'horseshoe theory,' now sees its validity as a significant portion of the American right has abandoned classical liberal tenets like individual rights, sovereignty of facts, and reason in favor of culturally loaded ideologies, mirroring trends on the left.

THE EPSTEIN SCANDAL AND TRUMP'S MOVEMENT

The Epstein scandal is analyzed as a unique challenge for Trump, exposing the fragility of his cult of personality. Goldberg suggests that elements within the MAGA sphere are clinging to the story for its monetizable aspects and its alignment with conspiracy narratives. The inability of Trump to fully suppress this issue, unlike past scandals, reveals the limitations of a movement unified solely around an individual rather than ideology. It creates internal conflict for those invested in the narrative, forcing them to admit potential past dishonesty.

CHALLENGES FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

In contrast to the assertive, albeit concerning, strategies of the right, the Democratic Party is depicted as being in a state of apathy and bewilderment. Goldberg notes their struggled attempts to leverage the Epstein story for political gain, suggesting a broader lack of direction. He observes that dominant voices within the party, like Bernie Sanders and AOC, seem to be pulling it in directions not conducive to broad political success, leaving a vacuum in effective opposition to the Republican agenda.

THE CONSTITUTION AND MORAL FOUNDATIONS

The concept of 'common good constitutionalism' is critiqued, particularly the notion that the Constitution is a morally neutral document. Goldberg argues that this neutrality, such as in due process or privacy rights, is itself profoundly moral and a cornerstone of Western democracies. He contends that viewing foundational principles as morally void, a stance taken by some post-liberal right-wing factions, is a self-destructive approach that undermines the very system they claim to uphold.

TRUMP'S RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS BASE AND FEEDBACK LOOPS

Goldberg examines Trump's tendency to overvalue feedback from his most ardent, online supporters, often mistaking them for the median voter. This reliance on specific online communities and media figures (like Fox News hosts) creates a distorted perception of public opinion. This feedback loop, evident in the handling of the Epstein scandal and past instances like his support for vaccines, leads Trump to misread the broader electorate and often causes unnecessary trouble for him by amplifying niche obsessions.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Companies

●Organizations

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

Jonah Goldberg notes that Trump's second term has shown more substance, both positive and negative, compared to his first term which was more characterized by a 'condo salesman' approach focused on headlines and performative actions.

Topics

Trump 2.0 Political Extremism MAGA Cult Postmodernism Cult Of Authenticity Horseshoe Theory Illiberalism Classical Liberalism Common Good Constitutionalism Epstein Scandal Cult Of Personality

Mentioned in this video

conceptQAnon

A conspiracy theory movement, compared to the Epstein story as being appealing to certain segments of the MAGA base.

organizationCPAC

A conservative political conference where Trump was booed for taking credit for vaccines.

personWayne Booth

A literary critic mentioned for his statement that rhetoric is the art of probing what men believe men ought to believe, used to discuss hypocrisy.

conceptHorseshoe Theory

The theory that the political extremes (far-left and far-right) resemble each other in certain ways, particularly in their lack of principles and willingness to break norms.

personSteve Hayes

Co-founder of The Dispatch with Jonah Goldberg.

mediaThe Remnant

A podcast hosted by Jonah Goldberg.

conceptCommon Good Constitutionalism

A niche of post-liberal right-wing thought that argues the Constitution is a morally neutral document, a view Goldberg criticizes.

personDavid French

Friend of Jonah Goldberg who described the Epstein story as 'the thinking man's QAnon.'

personLaura Loomer

Mentioned as one of the 'gargoyles' whose opinions Trump might overvalue from his base.

companyThe Dispatch

A media organization co-founded by Jonah Goldberg and Steve Hayes, aiming to model fact-driven, right-of-center journalism.