What early lessons did the speaker learn about cultural identity and self-worth from her mother?

Her mother taught her to understand her own worth and the value of her culture. When American friends wanted specific foods, her mother insisted on serving traditional Ghanaian food, emphasizing that when guests are in their home, they adapt to their traditions, instilling pride in her unique identity.

How did the speaker's father's definition of success impact her career choices?

Her father equated success with financial independence, nice things, and big titles. Initially, this led her to chase titles, but she later realized that true power and influence come from convincing others and executing ideas, not just a job title.

What is the speaker's philosophy on 'letting go' to find one's destiny?

She believes 'letting go' is an active process, not surrender. It involves letting go of preconceived ideas, knowing when to pivot from hitting a 'cement wall', and allowing space for new opportunities while actively polishing other skills and listening to intuition.

How can one tune into their intuition when external voices are loud?

The speaker emphasizes that intuition is like a muscle that needs to be worked and listened to. Ignoring it makes it quieter. She trusts her intuition completely, even when logic or others' advice contradict it, because it has consistently led her to fulfilling opportunities.

What was the pivotal moment with Spike Lee that changed the trajectory of the speaker's career?

As a temporary receptionist, she boldly asked Spike Lee to read his script for 'Bamboozled'. She returned it with notes and markups, surprising him. This audacity secured her the job and taught her that no one knows more about 'anything' than you do, challenging conventional hierarchies.

What leadership lesson did the speaker take away from her experience with Spike Lee?

She learned that leaders should not dismiss junior team members for lack of experience, but rather create space for them to contribute and challenge ideas. She actively calls on people in meetings, recognizing that different perspectives can change the entire direction of a project.

How did the suicide of her ex-boyfriend impact the speaker's life and her approach to friendship?

She battled immense guilt and regret, leading her to feel like a 'survivor's guilt'. This trauma makes her very conscious of people's delicate lives. She now ensures she checks in on friends who seem 'funny' or distant, fearing she might be their last call.

What were the circumstances surrounding the speaker's first pregnancy and the loss of her baby?

Initially, she did not want to be pregnant due to career ambition and societal pressures. However, she developed a maternal instinct at five months when health issues arose. She had preeclampsia, leading to an early delivery and the baby, Eve, did not survive.

How did Peter's cancer diagnosis affect their estranged relationship?

Peter's diagnosis with Burkitt's lymphoma, deemed terminal, rendered all past anger and misunderstanding irrelevant. They made a conscious choice to reconcile, focusing on forgiveness and preparing for his end, solidifying their commitment until his last heartbeat.

Why does the speaker advocate for being 'selfish' in one's career and life choices?

She believes that to be a great contributor, friend, or mother, one must be wholly happy. Being 'selfish' means prioritizing oneself and leaving situations that don't serve personal well-being. She argues it's about not wasting time and energy on things that cause unhappiness.

What is the most important skill for a great marketer?

The speaker emphasizes that the most important skill is curiosity about people. Great marketers relentlessly ask why people do what they do, why they like certain things, and then listen to the answers. This deep understanding allows them to connect with audiences effectively.

CMO Of Netflix: "Work Life Balance" Is BAD Advice! I Lost My Baby & My Husband!

The Diary Of A CEO

People & Blogs6 min read96 min video

Aug 10, 2023|819,963 views|24,704|1,536

The Diary Of A CEO steven bartlett steve bartlett podcast the diary of a CEO podcast life lessons CEO

Save to Pod

Key Moments

On this page

TL;DR

Bozoma Saint John on overcoming tragedy, creating destiny, and prioritizing self-worth.

Key Insights

Embrace your unique self and don't be afraid to be selfish in your career and life.

Destiny is not predetermined; it is created through actions, choices, and listening to intuition.

Success is defined personally, not by external validation like titles or wealth.

Overcoming significant personal tragedies like loss of a child and partner's cancer led to a profound re-evaluation of life.

Intuition is a muscle that needs to be trained through consistent listening and brave action.

Do not dismiss the contributions of others, regardless of their tenure or position.

THE PHOENIX'S RISE: OVERCOMING ADVERSITY

Bozoma Saint John, a marketing and branding executive at top companies like Netflix and Uber, describes herself as a 'phoenix' who has risen from the ashes multiple times. Her life has been marked by significant upheavals, starting from her childhood in Ghana with a political coup, to moving to the US and constantly reinventing herself. These experiences, though challenging, have instilled in her a strong sense of survival and an exceptional ability to read people and situations quickly.

DEFINING SUCCESS: BEYOND TITLES AND WEALTH

Saint John's father instilled a definition of success rooted in financial independence and high-status titles. However, her own career trajectory taught her that titles do not equate to power or influence. True power comes from convincing others of your vision and executing effectively. Her definition of success has evolved to prioritize personal happiness, peace, and the freedom to be excited about her work, moving beyond material possessions and external validation.

CREATING DESTINY THROUGH INTUITION AND ACTION

Saint John challenges the notion of a predetermined destiny, asserting that individuals actively create their own path. This creation process involves 'letting go' not of responsibility, but of preconceived notions and hitting roadblocks repeatedly. It requires taking action, exploring opportunities, and crucially, listening to one's intuition. She emphasizes that destiny is found not by sitting still, but by constant movement, discovery, and making choices guided by an inner compass.

EMBRACING SELFISHNESS AND PRIORITIZING WELL-BEING

A core piece of advice Saint John offers is to be 'selfish' in life and career. This doesn't mean being inconsiderate, but rather prioritizing one's own needs and well-being. Many people hesitate to leave situations that aren't serving them due to fear of the unknown or concern for others' feelings. However, she argues that true contribution to society, friendships, and family is only possible when one is living a life of genuine happiness and fulfillment. This self-preservation is essential for sustained well-being and avoiding dissatisfaction.

NAVIGATING PROFOUND LOSS AND RELATIONSHIP CHALLENGES

Saint John shares deeply personal experiences of loss, including the tragic death of her infant daughter due to preeclampsia and her ex-boyfriend's suicide. These profound traumas significantly impacted her life and relationships, particularly her marriage to Peter. The grief and blame surrounding their daughter's death strained their relationship to the breaking point, leading to separation. Later, Peter's cancer diagnosis prompted a reconciliation, emphasizing forgiveness and shared presence until the end.

THE POWER OF LISTENING AND CHAMPIONING OTHERS

Drawing from her early career experience with Spike Lee, where her uninhibited feedback led to a job offer, Saint John stresses the importance of not dismissing potential in others. She advocates for leaders to actively create space for junior team members and diverse perspectives to be heard. While acknowledging the need to protect one's 'contribution score' to ensure thoughtful input, she highlights that a leader's role includes fostering an environment where ideas can be shared, tested, and learned from, even if they fail.

LEARNING FROM SETBACKS AND THE "ICK" FACTOR

Saint John views 'Sunday scaries' not just as dread of the work week, but as a critical signal indicating misaligned life choices. She applies this to all areas, including relationships, suggesting that feeling 'ickiness' around someone or an activity is a sign to re-evaluate. She believes that failure in creative endeavors or business is inevitable and a part of the process. Leaders must protect their teams' spirits by encouraging experimentation and learning from both successes and failures, rather than shaming them.

FINDING LOVE AND NAVIGATING FAMILIAL EXPECTATIONS

Her journey in finding love with Peter, whom she initially dismissed, illustrates the 'let go and let God' principle in action, but with a crucial emphasis on active participation. Despite societal and familial pressures, including her father's initial disapproval of their interracial relationship, she followed her intuition. Their quick, deep connection, solidified by a shared intellectual exploration of Toni Morrison's 'Song of Solomon,' led to marriage, proving that love can transcend initial expectations and external judgments.

THE UNEXPECTED PATH TO MOTHERHOOD

Initially unsure about motherhood and focused on her burgeoning career, Saint John's experience of pregnancy was marked by tears and a sense of duress, not immediate joy. It wasn't until facing a high-risk pregnancy with preeclampsia that her maternal instincts fully engaged. The subsequent loss of her daughter was devastating, coupled with the guilt of having initially resisted pregnancy. Her second pregnancy, though also challenging, affirmed her fierce determination to mother her child, Leo, by any means necessary.

THE ENDURING IMPACT OF GRIEF AND PERSPECTIVE SHIFT

The loss of her daughter, Eve, and later, her ex-boyfriend Ben, profoundly shaped Saint John's perspective on life's fragility and the importance of cherishing moments. The grief, especially survivor's guilt, continues to inform her actions, making her hyper-aware of the needs of those around her. She emphasizes that while the pain of loss never fully disappears, it transforms, leading to a deeper appreciation for life and relationships, and a refusal to waste energy on things that do not align with her values.

RECONCILIATION AND THE FINAL HEARTBEAT

The separation from her husband Peter, strained by the trauma of losing their daughter and differing views on future pregnancies, eventually led to a profound reconciliation. When Peter was diagnosed with terminal cancer, the anger and misunderstandings of the past faded. They chose to focus on forgiveness and shared presence, becoming a team again until his last breath. This period highlighted the importance of making a conscious choice to forgive and be present for loved ones, even through immense difficulty.

BEING A GREAT MARKETER: CURIOSITY AND STORYTELLING

Saint John defines great marketers as compelling storytellers who can make audiences believe. This ability stems from deep curiosity about people – understanding their motivations, desires, and fears. She advises aspiring marketers to ask questions constantly and to explore why people make the choices they do. While personal resonance with a product or idea can be a starting point, true marketing success lies in understanding and connecting with the audience's world on a fundamental level.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE: KNOW THYSELF

Saint John's parting words to those inspired by her career are to get to know themselves better. She asserts there is no single prescribed path to success, and aspiring to be someone else is futile. True achievement comes from listening to one's intuition, leveraging unique strengths, and bravely pursuing one's own version of greatness and happiness. The struggle to fight harder for her current position was framed by the profound realization of life's brevity, urging others to live authentically and purposefully.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Products

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

The speaker describes herself as a 'Phoenix' because her world has burned and she has risen multiple times. These experiences include her family having to uproot from Ghana due to a political coup at age five and moving to Colorado Springs at age 12, forcing her to recreate herself.

Topics

Preeclampsia Destiny

Mentioned in this video

organizationWesleyan University

The university in Middletown, Connecticut, from which the speaker graduated.

drugLovenox

A blood thinner that the speaker had to inject daily during her second pregnancy to manage her condition.

mediaSliding Doors

A late 90s movie starring Gwyneth Paltrow, used as an analogy for how small actions can lead to different destinies.

mediaBamboozled

A script by Spike Lee that the speaker was given to read and edit as a receptionist.

locationColorado Springs

The city in Colorado where the speaker's family moved when she was 12, causing her world to shift and burn again.

locationMadison Avenue

The street in New York known as the hub for advertising, where Spike Lee's agency was located.

conceptPreeclampsia

A condition the speaker developed during her first pregnancy where blood pressure rises and the body attacks the pregnancy, leading to early delivery and loss of the baby.

conceptFufu

A traditional Ghanaian food that the speaker's mother insisted on serving to her American friends, highlighting cultural pride.

companyDDB

One of the biggest advertising agencies, with whom Spike Lee had a joint venture.

personToni Morrison

A renowned author, whose book 'Song of Solomon' was a favorite of the speaker and used as a test for her future husband.

personProfessor Tim Spector

Scientific co-founder of Zoe, previously a guest on the podcast.

productBeats