What does it mean to say the self is an illusion?

An illusion, in the Indian philosophical sense, means existing in one way but appearing in another. The self-illusion means we exist as persons, but we often mistakenly take ourselves to be a permanent, separate self—a 'me' that owns our body and mind and stands apart from the world.

How does the concept of 'person' differ from 'self' in this context?

The 'self' is the illusory, independent entity we often instinctively believe ourselves to be. A 'person,' in contrast, is seen as an embodied, interdependent, and causally conditioned continuation of psychophysical processes, existing within a social context and interacting with the world.

Why is understanding the self as an illusion important?

Understanding the self-illusion is important for authentic self-understanding, as it encourages us to know ourselves better. Morally, it can counter egoism and reduce corrosive reactive attitudes like blame and anger. It can also lead to happier, more effective lives by helping us enter 'flow states' more readily.

What are the three dimensions of interdependence discussed?

The three dimensions are causal interdependence (effects depend on causes), part-whole dependence (wholes depend on parts, and vice versa), and dependence on conceptual imputation (identities depend on how we understand them, like the value of money).

Does rejecting the self mean denying free will?

Yes, the concept of a self is deeply tied to the illusion of libertarian free will, which posits a causally exempt agent. By dismantling the idea of a self, we can better understand ourselves as natural organisms embedded in a causal nexus, where actions are part of a complex chain of events rather than solely originating from an independent 'will'.

How can one experience the absence of a self?

The video suggests that by recognizing that even the feeling of being a self is an appearance or object within consciousness, one can begin to perceive consciousness itself as prior to and unimplicated in this feeling. This can lead to experiencing a state of pure consciousness without the usual subject-object duality or sense of self.

Key Moments

#282 - Do You Really Have a Self?: A Conversation with Jay Garfield (Episode #282)

Sam Harris

Science & Technology4 min read55 min video

May 23, 2022|113,988 views|1,871|535

sam harris sam harris podcast waking up podcast waking up waking up with sam harris sam harris waking up waking up sam harris sam harris jordan peterson sam harris joe rogan author neuroscientist philosopher

Save to Pod

Key Moments

TL;DR

The self is an illusion; we are interdependent persons, not independent selves. Understanding this reduces suffering and enhances life.

Key Insights

The 'self' as a distinct, independent entity is an illusion, differing from the concept of being a 'person'.

Illusion occurs when something exists in one way but appears in another; the self appears independent but is not.

Our sense of self relies on a mistaken belief in an inner, non-spatio-temporal ego separate from the world.

Understanding the illusory nature of the self can alleviate suffering, reduce egoism, and improve relationships.

Existence is characterized by interdependence: causal, part-whole, and conceptual imputation (how we define things).

The illusion of the self is deeply tied to the concept of libertarian free will, which is also seen as illusory.

INTRODUCTION TO THE SELF AS ILLUSION

Sam Harris and Jay Garfield explore the idea that the self is an illusion, a concept central to many Buddhist philosophies and increasingly discussed in Western thought. Garfield, drawing on both Eastern and Western traditions, argues that while we demonstrably exist as persons, the persistent feeling of an independent, unified 'self' is a mistaken perception. This foundational illusion, he suggests, is deeply connected to our experience of suffering and our ethical frameworks.

ACADEMIC AND BUDDHIST ORIGINS OF THE INQUIRY

Jay Garfield's engagement with Buddhist philosophy began through his students, leading to a significant research interest over three decades. He emphasizes that his approach is cross-cultural, incorporating Western philosophers like David Hume and contemporary phenomenology alongside Buddhist texts, particularly from the Gelug tradition. Garfield's practice is academic, focusing on analysis and debate rather than religious meditation, aiming to integrate Buddhist insights into mainstream philosophical discourse.

DEFINING THE SELF AND THE NATURE OF ILLUSION

Garfield distinguishes between 'self' and 'person,' asserting the latter's reality while disputing the former. An illusion, in the Indian philosophical sense, is defined as something appearing one way while existing another. The 'self' is characterized as the intuitive, atavistic sense of a 'me' that owns the body and mind, a subject separate from the world. Thought experiments, like desiring another's body or mind, highlight this perceived separation, which Garfield argues is a pervasive, though ultimately unfounded, human experience.

THE OBJECTIVE VIEW: INTERDEPENDENCE AND PHYSICAL REALITY

From a third-person, scientific perspective, the idea of a separate self is untenable. We are physical beings, inseparable from the universe, constantly exchanging matter and energy with our environment. This view negates any radical disjunction between a person and the world, making notions of libertarian free will, which propose agency outside the causal matrix, philosophically problematic. Our actions are understood as part of the universe's unfolding physics, not the product of an uncaused agent.

THE SOCIAL AND CONCEPTUAL CONSTRUCT OF PERSONHOOD

Beyond physical interdependence, humans are also products of a social universe, shaped by language, culture, and social relations. Our identities as teachers, parents, or citizens are not innate but are constituted through social interaction and conceptual imputation. This means that our existence as persons is not an independent discovery but a sophisticated construction emerging from a complex web of physical and social interdependencies, akin to how a five-dollar bill derives its value from societal agreement.

CONVENTIONAL VS. ULTIMATE TRUTH AND DEPENDENT ORIGINATION

Buddhist philosophy distinguishes between conventional and ultimate truths. Conventional truths describe how things appear and function in the world, while ultimate truths reveal their underlying nature. Dependent origination posits that all phenomena arise in dependence on causes and conditions. This interdependence manifests causally, part-whole relationships, and crucially, through conceptual imputation – our recognition and definition of things. Money, for example, exists conventionally through our shared agreement, not through inherent properties of paper and ink.

CHALLENGING THE PHENOMENOLOGY OF SELFHOOD

While the subjective experience of being a distinct 'self' feels undeniable, this phenomenology can be misleading, similar to optical illusions. The self's apparent properties—primordial independence, free agency, pure subjectivity, unity, and simplicity—are examined and found wanting. The idea of a free will, historically developed to absolve divine responsibility, is critiqued as a key component of the self-illusion, leading to problematic concepts of blame and pride. A more accurate view recognizes us as complex, causally conditioned beings.

THE SUBJECT-OBJECT DUALITY AND THE PATH TO INSIGHT

The pervasive subject-object duality, the sense of an inner self as a spectator of the external world, is central to the self-illusion. However, by persistently examining this experience, one can notice that the very feeling of being a 'self' also appears as an object of awareness. This realization suggests that consciousness, as the aware subject, is prior and un-implicated in the apparent feeling of selfhood. This insight can lead to experiencing consciousness not as a distinct self, but as an open, unconditioned awareness of appearances.

IMPLICATIONS FOR WELL-BEING AND ETHICS

Understanding the self as an illusion has profound practical implications. It encourages genuine self-understanding, moving beyond a mistaken identity. Morally, it can dismantle the foundations of egoism and corrosive reactive attitudes like blame and anger by acknowledging the causal conditions affecting all individuals. Furthermore, recognizing interdependence and dissolving the self-illusion can facilitate 'flow states,' enhancing happiness, effectiveness, and reducing psychological suffering, aligning with the core Buddhist pursuit of liberation from suffering.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

From a Buddhist perspective, the self is considered an illusion. It's not that we don't exist as persons, but rather that the idea of a fixed, independent, unitary 'self' that owns our experiences and actions is a chimera. Instead, we exist as interdependent persons, constantly changing psychophysical processes.

Topics

Neuroscience & the Brain Mindset & Self-Improvement Free-will Buddhist Philosophy Dependent Origination

Mentioned in this video

Concepts

Galup tradition

A lineage within Vajrayana Buddhism from which Jay Garfield's principal teachers originate.

Locations

Garden of Eden

Biblical location referenced in the discussion about the origins of evil and the concept of free will.

Organizations

Smith College

An institution where Jay Garfield teaches philosophy.

Harvard Divinity School

An institution where Jay Garfield is a visiting professor of Buddhist philosophy.

Media

Milinda and Nagasena

A Buddhist text referenced for its discussion on the self, used as an example for explaining conventional existence.

Books

Losing Ourselves: Learning to Live Without a Self

Jay Garfield's recent book that explores the concept of the self from Buddhist and Western philosophical perspectives.

Treatise of Human Nature

A work by David Hume where he discusses human beings as 'natural artificers'.

People

David Hume

A key figure in Western philosophy whose work on the self is referenced by Jay Garfield.

Jay Garfield

Professor of philosophy, logic, and Buddhist studies at Smith College and visiting professor at Harvard Divinity School, author of 'Losing Ourselves'.