How long has modern dating, as we know it, existed?

Modern dating, characterized by consensual partnership rather than arranged marriages, only began around 1890. Dating apps, a significant recent development, became prominent about 10 years ago.

What is attachment theory and how does it relate to adult relationships?

Attachment theory, rooted in childhood experiences with primary caregivers, describes three main styles: anxious (fear of abandonment), avoidant (fear of smothering/intimacy), and secure (balancing intimacy and independence). These styles often manifest in adult romantic relationships, influencing dynamics like the 'anxious-avoidant loop.'

Can an individual change their attachment style?

Research suggests that about 25% of people are able to change their attachment style by understanding their triggers, learning self-regulation strategies, and actively choosing different reactions, or by dating a securely attached partner.

Why do people often get addicted to 'bad boys' or 'f*ck boys' in dating?

This phenomenon is explained by the 'partial reward schedule,' similar to BF Skinner's pigeon research. Inconsistent attention (hot and cold behavior) creates an addictive uncertainty, making the chase feel exciting, unlike the 'continuous reward' of a secure relationship.

What is The Secretary Problem and how does it apply to finding a partner?

The Secretary Problem is an optimal stopping theory, mathematically suggesting that to maximize the chance of choosing the best option from a finite pool, you should assess the first 37% as a benchmark. In dating, this translates to having a benchmark, then choosing the next person who is better, rather than endlessly searching for 'perfection'.

What is 'digital body language' and why is it important in online dating?

Digital body language refers to the non-verbal cues communicated through text in early dating, such as one-word answers or a lack of follow-up questions. Recognizing these cues helps identify genuine interest and avoid wasting time on those who aren't investing.

What is the advice for dating about 'pet peeves' versus 'deal breakers'?

People often confuse 'pet peeves' (minor annoyances like a velcro wallet) with 'deal breakers' (fundamental incompatibilities like different stances on having children). Focusing too much on 'icks' or pet peeves can prevent individuals from connecting with potentially great partners.

What are Logan Ury's three dating tendencies?

The three dating tendencies are: 'Romanticizers' (unrealistic expectations of relationships, seeking a soulmate/rom-com story), 'Maximizers' (unrealistic expectations of partners, constantly searching for 'the perfect person'), and 'Hesitaters' (unrealistic expectations of themselves, delaying dating until they feel 'perfect').

How can dating apps be used more effectively?

Dating apps are merely modern matchmakers. Success involves clear headshots, diverse photos showing social life and activities, mixing humor and vulnerability in prompts, avoiding cliches, and being specific. Additionally, being phone-free on actual dates fosters deeper connection.

What key qualities are correlated with long-term relationship success, beyond superficial traits?

Relationship science suggests prioritizing qualities like kindness, loyalty, emotional stability, the ability to make hard decisions together, and crucially, the ability to 'fight well' (conflict resolution). Less important are looks, money (beyond a basic threshold), or identical hobbies/personalities.

What is the 'decide, don't slide' principle for relationship milestones?

This principle emphasizes intentionally discussing and agreeing on relationship milestones (e.g., moving in, getting engaged) rather than passively 'sliding' into them due to convenience or external factors. Intentional decisions lead to more conscious, happier, and often more stable relationships.

The Love Expert: Why Women Are Addicted To Toxic Men,"Have A Boring Relationship Instead!" Logan Ury

The Diary Of A CEO

People & Blogs6 min read109 min video

Oct 26, 2023|3,716,460 views|85,308|7,849

The Diary Of A CEO steven bartlett steve bartlett podcast the diary of a CEO podcast life lessons CEO

Save to Pod

Key Moments

On this page

TL;DR

Dating expert Logan Ury discusses attachment styles, dating tendencies, and science-backed strategies for finding lasting love.

Key Insights

Understanding attachment styles (anxious, avoidant, secure) is crucial for recognizing relationship patterns and improving dating success.

The 'anxious-avoidant loop' describes a common dynamic where anxious individuals chase unavailable avoidant partners, leading to frustration.

Securely attached individuals are the 'heroes' of the relationship world for their ability to balance intimacy and independence.

Confusing 'pet peeves' (like a velcro wallet) with 'deal breakers' often prevents people from pursuing potentially good relationships.

Dating 'tendencies' (Romanticizer, Maximizer, Hesitater) highlight common unrealistic expectations that hinder finding a partner.

Focusing on 'relation shipping' (investing in a partner) over 'relation shopping' (finding the 'perfect' match) is key to long-term success.

Vulnerability, sharing stories instead of just facts, and creating a playful, non-judgmental environment are essential for deep connection.

The 'secretary problem' offers a mathematical framework for knowing when to stop searching and commit to a partner.

Dating apps are a positive tool for increasing the dating pool, especially for underserved communities, but personal effort remains crucial.

Effective dating profiles use clear photos and specific, varied prompts to tell a story and showcase different sides of oneself.

UNDERSTANDING ATTACHMENT THEORY AND ITS ROLE IN LOVE

Logan Ury, a dating scientist, explains attachment theory, rooted in childhood caregiver dynamics. Anxious attachment manifests as a fear of abandonment, leading individuals to constantly seek closeness. Avoidant attachment, conversely, involves a fear of smothering, prompting individuals to create distance and delay intimacy. Securely attached individuals, however, can balance both closeness and independence, representing an ideal in relationship dynamics. Recognizing one's attachment style is presented as a fundamental step toward understanding personal dating patterns and improving relationship outcomes.

DECODING THE ANXIOUS-AVOIDANT LOOP AND TOXIC ATTRACTION

The 'anxious-avoidant loop' describes a common, often painful, dating dynamic where anxiously attached individuals pursue unavailable avoidant partners. This push-and-pull creates a cycle of chasing and retreating, which can feel exciting but is ultimately detrimental to genuine connection. Ury emphasizes that attraction to 'toxic' or unavailable partners is often rooted in these attachment patterns, comparing the intermittent rewards to addictive slot machines. Breaking free requires recognizing the pattern and actively seeking more secure connections, rather than being drawn to the intensity of an unpredictable dynamic.

STRATEGIES FOR OVERCOMING ATTACHMENT CHALLENGES

For those with avoidant tendencies, strategies include clearly communicating needs, overriding the negativity bias by focusing on positive qualities, and becoming more comfortable relying on others. Anxiously attached individuals are advised to practice self-regulation, distract themselves from anxious spirals, and engage in 'disconfirming evidence' to challenge catastrophic thinking. The most effective strategy highlighted is finding a securely attached partner, who can model healthier relationship behaviors and help break negative cycles. Both self-work and partner selection are crucial for building secure bonds.

THE THREE DATING TENDENCIES AND UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS

Ury identifies three common dating tendencies that often sabotage relationships due to unrealistic expectations. 'Romanticizers' seek a fairytale 'meet-cute' and believe love should be effortless, ending relationships at the first sign of trouble. 'Maximizers' seek a 'perfect' partner by combining ideal traits from past partners, leading to perpetual searching and dissatisfaction. 'Hesitators' postpone dating until they meet arbitrary self-improvement goals, never feeling ready. Recognizing these tendencies is vital for adjusting expectations and engaging more effectively in the dating process, focusing on genuine connection over idealized outcomes.

SHIFTING FROM RELATION SHOPPING TO RELATION SHIPPING FOR LASTING LOVE

The concept of 'relation shopping'—treating partner selection like a consumer transaction based on superficial checklists—is contrasted with 'relation shipping,' the intentional work of building a lasting partnership. Research shows that superficial qualities like looks and even initial wealth matter less over time than fundamental traits like kindness, loyalty, and emotional stability. Ury advocates for dating 'like a scientist,' testing hypotheses about potential partners and being open to attraction outside of one's usual 'type,' as the ideal partner is often someone who brings out the best, most secure version of oneself.

THE POWER OF VULNERABILITY AND AUTHENTIC CONNECTION

Authenticity and vulnerability are presented as the keys to deep connection, challenging the notion that perfection is desirable in dating. Sharing one's 'cracks'—imperfections, struggles, and doubts—makes individuals relatable and creates a safe space for others to be real. This contrasts with the 'highlight reel' often presented on social media. Ury argues that perceived flaws, such as chronic illness or past relationship struggles, do not make someone 'undatable' but rather offer opportunities for genuine connection when shared openly. This openness fosters deeper friendships and romantic relationships, moving beyond shallow interactions.

OPTIMIZING DATING PROFILES AND FIRST IMPRESSIONS

In the digital age, dating profiles serve as crucial billboards for self-presentation. Ury emphasizes the importance of clear, authentic photos—including a headshot, activity shot, group photo, and full-body picture—that accurately represent oneself without ambiguity. Prompts should be used to tell a story, blending humor and vulnerability, with specificity being key to relatability. Avoiding clichés, grammatical errors, and presenting only one facet of one's personality (e.g., always holding a drink) helps create a more compelling and honest profile that attracts compatible matches and encourages meaningful interactions.

CREATING THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT AND THE ROLE OF VULNERABILITY

The environment in which dates occur significantly impacts connection. Ury suggests moving beyond routine coffee dates to settings that encourage playfulness and reveal different sides of one's personality, such as activities or side-by-side seating at a bar. She advocates for 'distraction-free dating,' minimizing phone use to foster deeper conversations. Furthermore, vulnerability is stressed as a bridge to connection; sharing personal stories and 'baggage' allows others to feel safe and relatable. This authenticity, rather than a display of perfection, is what truly draws people together and cultivates lasting relationships.

THE 'SECRETARY PROBLEM' AND MAKING CONSCIOUS CHOICES

Introducing the 'secretary problem' from optimal stop theory, Ury explains the mathematical approach to knowing when to stop searching for a partner. By setting a benchmark based on the initial 37% of potential partners reviewed, individuals can then choose the next person who surpasses that benchmark. This framework encourages decisive commitment over perpetual searching, particularly for 'maximizers.' The core message is to transition from 'relation shopping' to 'relation shipping' by making conscious decisions to invest in a promising connection rather than endlessly seeking an idealized, non-existent perfect match.

THE IMPORTANCE OF CONFLICT RESOLUTION AND CHOOSING PROBLEMS

Great relationships are not defined by the absence of conflict but by the skill in resolving it. Ury highlights research suggesting that most relationship arguments are 'perpetual,' meaning they won't be definitively solved. Instead of seeking a partner with no problems, individuals should aim to find someone whose set of problems they are willing to accept and work through. This maturation involves acknowledging that every relationship involves challenges and choosing which ones are manageable, fostering a 'teamwork' mentality against obstacles rather than viewing each other as adversaries.

NAVIGATING MARRIAGE MILESTONES: DECIDE, DON'T SLIDE

Moving through relationship milestones like moving in together or getting engaged requires intentionality. Ury advises 'deciding, not sliding,' emphasizing open communication about expectations rather than passively slipping into the next stage. Couples who explicitly discuss their intentions and ensure they are aligned are more likely to have intentional, happy relationships. Rushing these decisions, often driven by age or perceived time constraints, can undermine the foundation of the relationship. The focus should be on mutual understanding and shared goals, ensuring both partners are consciously choosing the next steps together.

THE NET POSITIVE OF DATING APPS AND THEIR LIMITATIONS

Dating apps are seen as a net positive, expanding the dating pool and facilitating connections that might not otherwise occur, especially for niche communities. However, apps are merely modern matchmakers; they do not guarantee success. Ury stresses that while apps can help initiate contact, the subsequent work of building a connection, communicating effectively, and navigating potential challenges falls on the individuals. Blaming technology alone overlooks personal patterns and behaviors that may hinder relationship success, emphasizing that even with a great profile, the real work of dating happens offline.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Supplements

●Products

●Software & Apps

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Dating Smarter: Dos and Don'ts for Finding Lasting Love

Practical takeaways from this episode

Do This

Understand your attachment style (anxious, avoidant, secure) to identify behavioral patterns.

For avoidants: Clearly communicate your needs and intentionally focus on positives to counteract the negativity bias.

For anxious types: Practice self-regulation, distract yourself, text a friend instead of intensely pursuing, and use 'disconfirming evidence' to challenge negative spirals.

Date like a scientist: Form hypotheses, test different dating environments, and be open to being proven wrong (e.g., about 'your type').

Prioritize 'relation-shipping' over 'relation-shopping' by focusing on how a partner makes you feel rather than a superficial checklist.

Use the Post-Date 8 questions to tune into your experiential mindset and assess connection.

Practice phone-free dating by putting your phone away to foster deeper conversations and connection.

Share stories, not just facts, and embrace emotional vulnerability to build genuine connection.

Seek kindness, loyalty, emotional stability, and the ability to make hard decisions and fight well in a partner.

Engage in 'decide, don't slide' for relationship milestones, having explicit conversations about intentions rather than passively moving forward.

Avoid This

Don't blame your primary caregiver solely for your attachment style; acknowledge broader influences.

Don't confuse secure partners with 'boring' partners — train your brain to appreciate consistency and clarity.

Avoid dating 'boys' (those operating on a partial reward schedule) if you seek a continuous, healthy relationship.

Don't 'hustle' your way into a relationship; dating requires nuance, not just ambition or goal-setting.

Don't ignore clear signs of disinterest (digital body language) by endlessly trying to find the 'perfect' opening.

Don't let 'icks' (pet peeves) become deal-breakers, preventing you from seeing potential in others.

Avoid going on repetitive, interview-style coffee dates; vary your dating environments to foster different sides of yourself.

Don't set overly restrictive filters on dating apps, limiting your pool of potential partners.

Don't strive for an image of 'perfection' on dates; embrace your authentic self, including vulnerabilities, to build connection.

Don't just 'slide' into relationship milestones; explicitly discuss and decide on next steps with your partner.

Common Questions

Logan Ury's work focuses on 'the spark' (initial chemistry vs. slow burn), 'the Post-Date 8' (questions to ask after a date), and 'the three dating tendencies' (Romanticizer, Maximizer, Hesitater).

Topics

Dating Science Anxious Attachment Secure Attachment Dating Strategies Online Dating Profile

Mentioned in this video

bookAlgorithms to Live By

The book where Logan Ury learned about the 'secretary problem' and optimal stopping theory, which she applies to dating decisions.

personWhitney Wolfe Herd

Founder of Bumble, mentioned by the host as a previous podcast guest in the context of discussing male experiences on dating apps.

personJared Freid

A comedian known for his humorous bits about dating 'icks,' which he gathers by asking women about their experiences.

personSherry Turkle

An MIT Professor whose research on the influence of phones on conversation depth is cited to explain why phones diminish deep connection on dates.

eventBurning Man

An event where Logan Ury met a guy with whom she experienced an anxious-avoidant loop in their dating dynamic.

conceptHinge Distraction-Free Dating Guide

A guide produced by Hinge based on research advocating for reducing technology distractions during dates to foster deeper conversation and connection.

softwareBumble

A dating app mentioned in the context of discussing male feedback and skewed dynamics on dating platforms.

bookHow to Not Die Alone

Logan Ury's book, which applies behavioral science to dating and relationships, covering topics like attachment styles, dating tendencies, and effective strategies for finding love.

personJulie and John Gottman

Relationship researchers mentioned for their work on conflict resolution, particularly the finding that most fights are perpetual and couples need to learn to 'fight well.'

bookDiary of a CEO