Key Moments
Jordan Peterson: Imitation Of The Divine | Full Address and Q&A | Oxford Union
Oxford UnionKey Moments
Imitating the "divine ideal" means aligning actions with a supraordinate narrative structure, crucial for navigating reality and avoiding chaos, a process observed even in rats.
Key Insights
The problem of perception—categorizing infinite possibilities into a finite number of objects—took 3.5 billion years of evolution to solve, highlighting its complexity.
Understanding is deeply linked to embodiment; mapping information onto one's own body is essential for governing perceptions and structuring actions.
Emotions are integral to perception and operate within a cybernetic/narrative framework, with positive emotions signaling clear pathways and negative emotions signaling obstacles.
Narratives are fundamental to human communication and understanding, with better narratives involving the repair and reconstitution of structures after failure (paradise, fall, paradise).
Stable hierarchies in complex mammals are not solely predicated on power, but on reciprocity and fairness, as demonstrated by rat play behavior and chimpanzee social structures.
The arbitrary expression of power is not the primary mechanism for stable human societies; constant vigilance against malevolence, like psychopathy (which rarely exceeds 3-5% of the population), is necessary.
The fundamental problem of perception and interpretation
Jordan Peterson begins by posing the provocative idea of "imitation of the divine ideal," questioning its alternative and the meaning of "divine" and "ideal." He notes that this inquiry stems from observing a critical problem across multiple disciplines: the challenge of perception and interpretation. This issue, which took an estimated three and a half billion years of evolution to resolve, concerns how we apprehend the world through our senses and consciousness. The world is presented to us via our perceptions, and we often conflate our perceived reality with actual reality. This is unavoidable due to our limited perceptual capacities. The problem is particularly acute because, as highlighted by researchers like Medin and Aguilar, it's possible to categorize an infinite number of objects in an infinite number of ways, meaning any perception is subject to endless interpretations. This fundamental dilemma has bedeviled artificial intelligence researchers, cognitive scientists, and literary critics alike, sparking the very culture wars we are currently engaged in.
Embodiment and the cybernetic framework for action
Peterson posits that the solution to the problem of perception requires embodiment, a concept that became evident in robotics by the early 1990s. To truly understand something is to map it onto one's own body. This understanding allows us to govern our perceptions and structure our actions, providing a sense of control and mastery over our environment. The ability to "get a grip," a common piece of advice for those distressed, is intrinsically linked to this embodied intelligence. Our capacity for language itself is partly a consequence of left-hemisphere specialization for fine motor actions, particularly in hand movements. The basic cybernetic framework—starting point, goal, self-correcting process—provides a model for goal-directed behavior. This model is fundamentally narrative, requiring a description of a starting point, an intended destination, and the process to bridge the gap, emphasizing the story we tell ourselves about our journey.
Narrative structure, value, and the imitation of ideals
The act of interpreting the world is inherently narrative and value-laden. We move from point A to point B because we perceive point B as better than point A, unless we are intentionally seeking a worse state. This pursuit of betterment, even on a micro-level, underpins our motivations. Peterson elaborates on narrative schemas, distinguishing between a basic narrative (describing the path from A to B) and a meta-narrative. A meta-narrative describes the process of narrative decomposition, descent into chaos, and subsequent reconstitution into a new narrative—the archetypal "paradise, fall, paradise" cycle. This dynamic process, the very generation and repair of meaning, is what should be imitated, not merely the static narrative itself. This concept is deeply ingrained, evidenced by how we communicate and learn through stories, which are far more effective for children than abstract data.
The role of emotion in perception and motivation
Neuropsychological research, particularly by figures like Jeffrey Gray, reveals that emotions are not separate from perception but are integrated within the cybernetic and narrative framework. Emotions act as evaluative signals within this process. When moving towards a goal, encountering an obstacle triggers negative emotions, signaling a need for correction, while a clear pathway elicits positive emotions, reinforcing the current course. This approach-avoidance structure maps directly onto our emotional systems. The sensitivity to positive and negative emotional valence forms two cardinal elements of personality structure (extraversion and neuroticism). This underscores that perception is never pure sensation; it is always motivated and action-oriented, as evidenced by the fact that our eyes must constantly move to avoid temporary blindness.
Social cognition and the instinct to imitate
Our biological evolution has equipped us with mechanisms to infer value structures from others. The distinct appearance of the human eye, with its clear distinction between the iris and sclera, facilitates the detection of gaze direction. This allows us to quickly ascertain where others are directing their attention, and by extension, what they value. This serves as an inexpensive shortcut for learning what to value ourselves. Social psychologists have observed that people are drawn to join others who are looking at something, demonstrating a powerful, almost instinctual, drive to imitate and infer value through shared attention. This instinct to imitate is a crucial component of the "imitation of the divine ideal," prompting the question: what precisely should we elevate our gaze towards?
Morality, reciprocity, and the critique of power-based hierarchies
Addressing a question about morality being solely linked to survival, Peterson agrees that survival is a component but emphasizes the devil is in the details. He draws on the work of Frans de Waal and Jaak Panksepp to illustrate that stable hierarchies in complex mammals are not based purely on power. Experiments with rats show that for play (a precursor to social bonding) to continue, the dominant rat must let the subordinate rat win approximately 30% of the time, demonstrating reciprocity. Similarly, among chimpanzees, while power plays a role, the most stable leaders are those who are intensely reciprocal, engage in mutual grooming, and are attentive to others. Even in brutal intergroup conflict, as observed by Jane Goodall, arbitrary expressions of power do not form the basis of functional, long-lasting human societies. Tyranny can lead to dominance, but it is not the foundational principle of robust social structures.
The challenge of malevolence and the necessity of internal unity
Peterson discusses the problem of malevolence, particularly psychopathy, which rarely exceeds 3-5% of the population. Human societies must find ways to keep these types under control. While women may seek protective partners who are somewhat aggressive, they also require kindness and generosity, a balance that often relates to agreeableness. Highly agreeable individuals can be susceptible to predation by Machiavellian psychopaths, highlighting the difficulty in threading the needle between being protective and being kind. The stable point for psychopathy appears to be around 3%, suggesting that if societies were solely based on power-mad hierarchies, psychopaths would dominate, which is demonstrably not the case. Therefore, the "will to power" is not the fundamental mechanism for navigating reality; rather, it is a corrupting force that requires constant vigilance. Internal ethical unity is essential for coherent action and psychological well-being, as disunity leads to anxiety and costly psychophysiological states.
The divine ideal as a supraordinate narrative and the nature of awe
The "divine ideal" represents a supraordinate or deep narrative, a concept often experienced through religious imagination before it could be propositionalized. Looking at the dome of a Byzantine cathedral, for example, symbolizes this. The dome against the sky represents the divine embodied against the backdrop of ultimate reality, offering an indication of this superordinate narrative. Experiencing awe, whether gazing at the night sky or through aesthetic experiences, is a pre-propositional, deeply biological response. It's akin to the prey response to a predator or how a cat puffs up when faced with a dog, calling forth something within us to respond to the encounter with the infinite, mortality, and finitude. This is a microcosm reflecting the structure of the cosmos itself – the divine ideal. The choice is to imitate this ideal or fail, a critical realization given our technological power and capacity for atrocity.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Organizations
Common Questions
It refers to imitating the process by which narratives are generated and repaired, aiming towards a supraordinate or 'divine' ideal that provides structure and value to perception and action, rather than just a static narrative.
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