Are dating apps a net positive or negative for relationships?

Dating apps are tools, and their outcome depends on strategy. Most people don't use them correctly, leading to frustration. They are a problem when overly relied upon as the sole solution for dating woes and contribute to a decline in overall relationship formation due to their nature as a meat market.

How has the sexual marketplace changed for men, and what is 'male invisibility'?

Men are finding it harder to meet women and get into relationships, with online dating initiating 250% more relationships in the last decade, yet overall relationship transactions decreasing. Many young men experience 'invisibility' because they lack resources (money, skills) that others, particularly women, desire, making them less attractive in a transactional sense.

What is the primary struggle women face in modern dating, according to Dr. Orion Taban?

The main problem women face is finding men for long-term relationships and marriage. Unlike previous generations where preparation for marriage was ingrained, many women now reach their 30s still searching, often due to significant shifts in societal dynamics and expectations.

What are the key differences in how men and women typically approach therapy and emotional processing?

Women generally use therapy to process emotions and prefer emotionally focused strategies, making them higher consumers of therapeutic services. Men, on the other hand, tend to seek action-oriented solutions and often view talking about problems as a waste of time and money, leading to a preference for male practitioners who focus on problem-solving.

How can men increase their attractiveness in the initial stages of dating?

Men should focus on 'exterior marketing' by improving physical fitness, hygiene, and spending on quality outfits. Learning 'seduction' or 'game' is also crucial, especially for less conventionally attractive men, by allowing the outcome to teach what works rather than relying on preconceived notions of what women say they want.

Why is emotional resonance more important than just logical communication for women?

Feminine communication focuses on emotional resonance, where the goal is to evoke a similar emotional experience in the listener, like a tuning fork. Men often focus on semantic content, leading to misunderstandings when women are trying to convey feelings, not just facts. Charismatic communication combines particular words with emotional content.

What is the 'Crisis of Disappointment' in relationships?

The 'Crisis of Disappointment' occurs when the initial fantasy of a partner shatters due to betrayal or accumulated inconsistencies. This is when the relationship truly begins, as partners start to see each other for who they are, rather than who they hoped they would be, which can transform previous attractions into irritations.

How does the 'Game of Please No' explain fundamental human interaction?

The 'Please No' game, from acting training, illustrates that any request begins with a 'no' (because wanting costs nothing, giving costs something). To achieve a 'yes,' one must use non-verbal cues (facial expression, tone, body language) and strategies like intimidation, seduction, or playfulness to stimulate the desired emotion in the other person.

Why is pornography considered a problem at an individual level?

Pornography provides men with 'perpetually sexually satisfied states,' which diminishes the 'libido' or sexual energy. This vital life force, normally sublimated into pro-social actions like building careers or taking risks, is then absent, leading to unmotivated, unproductive men who lack the drive for real-world relationships and achievements.

What is the recommended strategy for a 35-year-old man struggling to find a relationship?

He should 'date like it's his job,' treating it as a numbers game. This means sending out many 'resumes' (approaches), seeking coaching, doing research, and adapting flexibly. The goal is to maximize opportunities and reduce the time spent in the sexual marketplace to avoid rejection fatigue.

How can men be 'more selfish' to cultivate better relationships?

Instead of compromising, men should be 'selfish and explicit' about their needs and find a partner who aligns with or even enjoys those needs. This also involves meeting many personal needs (e.g., intellectual curiosity, hobbies) through non-sexual relationships (friends, mentors), reducing pressure on a single partner.

What is the most important takeaway from Dr. Orion Taban's book 'The Value of Others'?

The core message is that people want and need things from each other in relationships. To be 'rich in relationships,' one must cultivate and offer what others desire. Meeting a partner's needs and wants allows you to 'dispense with a lot of the fluff' that society often overemphasizes in relationship advice.

Dating Doctor: "Start Dating Like It's Your Job!" Dating Apps Are Impacting Us More Than We Realise!

The Diary Of A CEO

People & Blogs4 min read143 min video

Aug 26, 2024|2,499,765 views|48,473|7,641

The Diary Of A CEO steven bartlett steve bartlett podcast the diary of a CEO podcast life lessons CEO

Save to Pod

Key Moments

On this page

TL;DR

Modern dating is a crisis, with apps impacting relationships more than realized. Focus on self-improvement and strategic dating.

Key Insights

There's a significant relationship crisis, with fewer marriages and casual hookups.

Dating apps have accelerated this crisis by changing how people connect.

Men face a crisis of masculinity, struggling with identity and dating expectations.

Women primarily seek long-term partners, facing challenges in finding suitable men.

Self-improvement (dressing, fitness, communication) is crucial for attraction.

Relationships are fundamentally about exchanging value; understand what you offer and what you need.

THE BROADER RELATIONSHIP CRISIS: A MACRO VIEW AT MODERN DATING

The world is experiencing a profound relationship crisis, marked by declining marriage rates and fewer casual sexual encounters. This societal shift has significant downstream consequences, impacting population stability and individual well-being. The traditional pathways to commitment, where sex often preceded commitment, are less prevalent, creating a more confusing mating landscape for everyone involved. This macro-level issue directly affects individuals struggling to find satisfying connections.

MASCULINITY IN CRISIS AND THE ROLE OF DATING APPS

Modern masculinity is in flux, with men facing increased difficulty in initiating and maintaining relationships. Dating apps have become the primary mode of connection, yet they often exacerbate frustrations due to how they're used. Many men feel their value is overlooked, particularly at younger ages when they lack resources or experience. This sense of invisibility and lack of perceived value contributes to a mental health crisis, including higher rates of suicidality.

WOMEN'S CHALLENGES AND THE PURSUIT OF LONG-TERM PARTNERS

Women today often find themselves exclusively focused on finding a man to marry, a stark contrast to previous generations who were prepared for this from a young age. While they consume vast amounts of self-help and relationship material, the core issue often lies in their difficulty locating men who align with their long-term relationship goals. Many consultations with women revolve around how to secure a marriage proposal, highlighting a need for men who are not only attractive but also stable partners.

THE ART OF ATTRACTION: STRATEGIES FOR SUCCESS IN THE SEXUAL MARKETPLACE

Becoming more attractive is key to navigating the dating world. This involves focusing on controllable factors like physical fitness, hygiene, and presentation, including dressing well. Learning the 'art of seduction' isn't about manipulation, but about understanding how to direct attention and appeal to a partner's desires. This includes mastering communication, employing emotional resonance rather than just logical exchange, and creating a sense of shared experience, often referred to as 'vibe'.

FROM ATTRACTION TO MAINTENANCE: KEEPING A PARTNER ENGAGED

Attraction often relies on projection and fantasy, especially in the initial stages. The challenge then shifts to maintaining the relationship beyond this initial phase. This involves a 'slow and gradual disappointment' where authenticity gradually replaces the initial idealized image. True connection arises from seeing and accepting the partner for who they are, not just who you want them to be. This process requires an understanding of revealed preferences through consistent behavior.

THE ECONOMICS OF RELATIONSHIPS: VALUE EXCHANGE AND LOVE

Relationships are fundamentally an exchange of value, where needs and wants are met. While money is a clear form of value in professional contexts, in personal relationships, value encompasses security, excitement, emotional support, and companionship. Love, however, is different; it's a non-transactable gift given spontaneously. While transactional needs drive connection, true love and loyalty cannot be bought or earned, making it crucial to distinguish genuine affection from bids for exchange.

PORNOGRAPHY'S IMPACT AND THE SUBLIMATION OF LIBIDO

The widespread availability of pornography has fundamentally altered mating and dating. It offers men a readily accessible, albeit simulated, sexual experience, which can diminish their drive for real-world relationships and pro-social action through sublimation. The libido, when not channeled into productive endeavors like career or creativity, can lead to stagnation. Addressing this requires understanding the underlying needs pornography fulfills—often boredom and loneliness—and offering healthier alternatives like connection and meaningful activity.

NAVIGATING LOVE AND MONOGAMY IN A CHANGING WORLD

Strict monogamy may not be inherently natural, with humans often being 'monogamish.' Success in relationships often hinges on clear communication about boundaries and expectations. While transactional needs are essential, love is a spontaneous gift. The pursuit of an ideal partner can lead to disappointment if expectations are too high or if one focuses on finding an 'equal.' A more pragmatic approach involves understanding one's own value proposition and seeking partners whose needs and values complement one's own, rather than trying to find a perfect match.

FROM TRANSACTION TO CONNECTION: THE ROLE OF VULNERABILITY AND AUTHENTICITY

True connection deepens when individuals are willing to be vulnerable and authentic. This involves moving beyond performance and revealing one's true self, allowing for genuine understanding and love. Playing the 'game of please no' highlights how negotiation and understanding a partner's responses are crucial. By offering value and being clear about intentions, individuals can navigate the complexities of attraction and build relationships based on mutual needs and desires, rather than superficiality.

THE IMPORTANCE OF SELF-RELIANCE AND CLEAR SELECTION CRITERIA

Individuals, especially men, are advised to 'date like it's their job,' treating relationship seeking with the same seriousness and strategic approach as a career. This involves extensive resume-sending, so to speak, and learning from rejection. For women, the trap can be waiting for a 'meet-cute' without actively contributing to the relationship's progression. Clarity on essential criteria—those that truly matter and cannot be met elsewhere—is vital to avoid unnecessary disqualifications and to focus on building a partnership based on genuine compatibility and shared value.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Products

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Books

●People Referenced

Modern Dating Cheat Sheet

Practical takeaways from this episode

Do This

Date with intention, like it's your job, by engaging in 'Massive Action.' (495)

Focus on improving your 'exterior marketing' (appearance, hygiene, style). (1893)

Learn to communicate with emotional resonance, not just semantic information. (2400)

Use indirect initiation tactics (for women) with plausible deniability. (5010)

Share your present emotional experience to foster vulnerability and connection. (4668)

Ask others for small, reasonable favors to increase their unconscious attraction and create a 'yes chain.' (4890)

Undertake functional analysis of problematic behaviors (e.g., porn addiction) to identify and address underlying needs. (5703)

Plan ahead for contingencies to avoid relapse in addiction recovery. (6097)

Cultivate the qualities that others desire in a relationship; be prepared to offer value. (7714)

Clarify your selection criteria for a partner, making them as few as possible. (7267)

Focus on fixing obvious problems in your own life before attempting to solve humanity's problems. (7066)

Practice forgiveness as an emotional survival strategy to rid your heart of anger and resentment. (8344)

Avoid This

Over-rely on dating apps without developing real-world people skills. (1767)

Hesitate too long or overthink when approaching someone, leading to a stilted 'vibe.' (4487)

Overcompensate for nervousness by being overly bold, drunk, or 'handsy.' (4724)

Disabuse someone of their initial fantasy too quickly on a first date by talking too much. (2750)

Confuse kindness and generosity with attractiveness; attraction precedes these qualities. (2143)

Expect one partner to be an entire 'village' and meet all your needs; cultivate diverse relationships. (3304)

Surprise a woman with an approach; make your intentions clear and approach slowly. (4022)

Be too explicit about the transactional nature of relationships to maintain dignity. (7993)

Assume a relationship will 'take care of itself' or that you're a victim of circumstance – take action. (6518)

Try to change your partner; accept them as they are or find someone else. (7617)

Let anger and resentment fill your heart; practice forgiveness for your own peace. (8367)

Common Questions

The modern world is experiencing a relationship crisis marked by fewer marriages, fewer people entering relationships, and declining casual sexual encounters. This leads to concerns like population collapse, economic instability, and increased individual confusion in dating, as societal structures have changed significantly since the 1970s.

Topics

Relationship Psychology Sexual Marketplace Communication Styles Sexual Dimorphism Relationship Economics

Mentioned in this video

bookThe Value of Others: Understanding the Economic Model of Relationships to Get and Keep More of What You Want in the Sexual Marketplace

Dr. Orion Taban's book that discusses relationship dynamics from an economic perspective, focusing on value exchange and self-cultivation for relationship success.

personOrion Taban

A clinical psychologist specializing in modern dating and relationships, focusing on psychological aspects of attraction, communication, and emotional intimacy. Author of 'The Value of Others'.

companyVictoria's Secret

A lingerie brand mentioned as an example of how partners try to 'feel new' to maintain sexual interest in long-term relationships, suggesting variety in intimate apparel.

personKara Swisher

A journalist and podcaster who reportedly left Twitter due to the platform becoming a 'porn hellscape.'

toolFiverr

toolStarlink