Key Moments
E133: Market melt-up, IPO update, AI startups overheat, Reddit revolts & more with Brad Gerstner
Key Moments
Market trends, AI startup valuations, Reddit's revolt, and investment strategies discussed in detail.
Key Insights
The Federal Reserve's pause in rate hikes signals a shift, but future increases are anticipated, impacting market outlook.
AI is driving significant growth and valuations in tech, with companies like Google positioning themselves in this evolving landscape.
The IPO market is showing signs of activity with companies like ARM, but companies must now offer greater margins of safety.
While AI is sparking innovation, many startups are overvalued, with a focus on compute and hardware rather than sustainable IP.
Reddit's protest against API pricing highlights the ongoing tension between platforms, content creators, and third-party developers.
Investment strategies need to adapt to a high-rate environment, focusing on disciplined capital allocation and avoiding overvalued 'teaser bets'.
MARKET AND FED WATCH
The discussion opens with a brief mention of bestie intros and Chamath's public flight experience, before diving into macroeconomics. The Federal Reserve's recent pause on rate hikes is analyzed, noted as the first pause after consecutive hikes. While this signals a temporary breather, the expectation of further hikes later in the year tempers immediate market optimism, suggesting a cautious approach rather than a definitive end to monetary tightening.
IPO WINDOW AND VALUATIONS
The IPO market is showing tentative signs of life with companies like ARM confidentially filing, aiming for a significant valuation. However, the consensus is that any company pursuing an IPO in the current climate must offer a substantial 'margin of safety' to investors, a stark contrast to the low-margin deals of 2020-2021. This implies a more discerning investment landscape where companies need to justify their valuations with stronger fundamentals.
THE AI GOLD RUSH AND ITS PITFALLS
Artificial Intelligence is identified as a primary driver of the current tech stock surge. While AI presents immense opportunities, there's a concern that many AI startups are overheating, with valuations outpacing actual development. Significant capital is being funneled into hardware like GPUs and compute power, potentially leading to a 'subsidizing capex' scenario rather than investing in groundbreaking IP. This raises questions about the sustainability of current valuations and the long-term viability of these ventures.
GOOGLE'S AI POSITIONING
Google's role in the AI revolution is a key topic. Despite perceptions of being behind in generative AI, discussions suggest Google is not as far behind as some believe and has significant advantages in indexing and distribution. The '20 trillion dollar question' is posed: how will the web's open architecture be re-architected by AI? Google faces the challenge of potential cannibalization of its core search business as AI shifts user interaction paradigms towards conversational interfaces and agents.
CHALLENGES IN PUBLIC AND VENTURE MARKETS
Venturing into public markets is complex, with discussions on Jay Trading's success and how Brad Gerstner formulates his bets as a public market investor. Simultaneously, venture capital faces scrutiny. CalPERS' decision to increase its AI venture allocation is discussed, alongside concerns about 'teaser bets' and 'toxic assets' in venture funds. The conversation emphasizes the importance of disciplined investing and learning from historical cycles, especially in a high-rate environment.
REDDIT'S MOD REVOLT AND API ECONOMICS
Reddit's platform-wide protest by moderators highlights a critical issue: the economics of user-generated content and API access. Reddit's attempt to monetize its API for AI training and third-party apps, impacting services like Apollo, mirrors past platform strategies from Twitter and Facebook. This revolt underscores the power of community and content creators, questioning the traditional model where platforms monetize data without sufficiently compensating those who generate it.
THE FUTURE OF INTERACTION AND DATA CONTROL
The conversation shifts to the future of user interaction, moving beyond '10 blue links' to conversational AI agents. While some envision a single, all-knowing assistant, others predict a more fragmented landscape with specialized agents. A crucial takeaway is the importance of user control over their data. The Reddit protest serves as an example of users revolting when their data and contributions are perceived to be unfairly monetized, suggesting a future where users may increasingly gate or rent their data directly.
THE '20 TRILLION DOLLAR QUESTION': AI AND THE WEB
The fundamental rewiring of the internet due to AI is framed as the '20 trillion dollar question.' Search, the long-standing monetization engine, faces disruption. The shift is towards knowledge extraction and intelligent agents, challenging the traditional web page and advertising model. While Google and others will compete, the ultimate architecture of user interaction with AI remains uncertain, with debates around a single super-agent versus a network of specialized agents, and the pivotal role of data control residing with the user.
INVESTMENT STRATEGY IN A NEW PARADIGM
In the current investment climate, the hosts advocate for a disciplined approach, emphasizing patience and rigorous analysis. They caution against participating in the current AI exuberance without sufficient margin of safety, drawing parallels to past market bubbles. The focus should be on companies with sustainable advantages, particularly in the application and tooling layers of AI, rather than solely on foundational model development, where capital costs are immense and rapidly decreasing.
THE POWER OF WRITING AND RESEARCH
The session highlights the value of long-form writing, such as deal memos, over superficial presentations like decks. This approach fosters clarity of thought, attracts thoughtful critique, and facilitates better decision-making for both founders and capital allocators. It's presented as a fundamental skill for navigating complex investment landscapes and understanding nuanced market dynamics.
SCALING AI AND COMPUTER CAPITAL
The immense capital required for AI development, particularly for training models and acquiring hardware like GPUs, is a significant theme. Discussions around companies raising hundreds of millions in seed rounds for compute underscore a potential misallocation of capital, where investors might be subsidizing infrastructure costs rather than investing in core innovation. The rapid reduction in training costs suggests a need for investors to critically assess the long-term sustainability of such capital-intensive strategies.
SCIENCE, ENGINEERING, AND MISINFORMATION
A notable segment addresses the spread of misinformation regarding scientific advancements. The example of genetically modified mosquitoes used for disease control is scrutinized, debunking claims of genetic modification and emphasizing the benefits of such public health initiatives. The broader point is made that human ingenuity and scientific engineering have been critical for progress, and a nuanced understanding of technology is vital to avoid succumbing to fear-based misinformation.
THE EVOLVING ECONOMIC MODEL OF CONTENT
Comparing content creator compensation on platforms like YouTube versus legacy platforms reveals a disparity that needs addressing. The rise of platforms that promise to pay creators, like Meta's Project 92, suggests a shift towards more equitable revenue-sharing models. This aligns with the broader trend of users seeking greater control and monetization opportunities for their contributions, moving value away from centralized platforms towards individuals and communities.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Supplements
●Products
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●Concepts
●People Referenced
Historical Market Multiples (Internet & Software Companies)
Data extracted from this episode
| Period | Multiple Relative to 10-Year Average |
|---|---|
| Peak (2020-2021) | 50-70% above average |
| Trough (End of 2022) | 30-40% below average |
| Current (Early 2023) | Below 10-year average |
AI Model Training Cost Reduction
Data extracted from this episode
| Model | Initial Cost | Cost in 18 Months (Estimated) | Cost Reduction |
|---|---|---|---|
| GPT-4 | 400 million | 5-10 million | 100x |
Dengue Fever Infection Reduction from Wolbachia Mosquitoes
Data extracted from this episode
| Region Type | Dengue Infection Rate | Reduction |
|---|---|---|
| No Wolbachia Release | 9.4% | N/A |
| Wolbachia Release | 2.3% | 75% |
Common Questions
The speaker was impressed by Southwest Airlines due to its low cost ($49 for a flight to Vegas) and efficient boarding process, allowing him to get a front-row seat easily.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
Confidentially filed for an IPO, seeking to raise $8-10 billion. Its valuation is debated, with one speaker believing it could be worth $25 billion, not $70 billion.
One of two vertical search engines founded by Rich Barton, discussed for its potential role in a hyper-fragmented AI future and its plugin for ChatGPT.
A wine producer, specifically its 2014 vintage, which is called 'underrated' and 'excellent' by one speaker.
The speaker praises Southwest Airlines for its low fares and efficiency, having flown for $49 and in the front row, reaching Vegas in an hour.
Owns ARM and seeks liquidity through its IPO, having experienced significant write-downs in its Vision Fund.
Mentioned as one of the firms CalPERS has invested in recently, indicating a shift in their VC strategy.
Tried to acquire ARM for $40 billion. Its stock has performed extraordinarily well due to AI-related demand, with Q2 revenue guidance revised significantly upwards.
Mentioned as a company with a valid AI angle; expected to fiercely compete in the AI search landscape, potentially cannibalizing its existing search revenue.
Google tried to 'kill' Yelp, but users continue to use both services; an example of a vertical search engine that persists despite aggregator attempts.
A startup that raised a $105 million seed round at a $240 million valuation without writing any code, primarily to fund compute resources (100H GPUs).
One of two vertical search engines founded by Rich Barton, discussed in terms of its future in an AI-driven, conversational UI world.
A fantastic company doing over a billion in revenue and growing extraordinarily fast, also queueing up for a potential IPO.
Mentioned as one of the firms CalPERS has invested in recently, indicating a shift in their VC strategy.
Referenced for its consensus inflation forecast of 3.7%, contrasting the Fed's 3.2% projection.
Mentioned as a company with a super valid AI angle, also one of the most valuable tech stocks.
Mentioned as an example of a company that has seen significant stock recovery, up 67% this year.
Its stock has doubled off the bottom. Also discussed for its potential new text-based social network 'Project 92' to compete with Twitter and pay creators.
Company co-founded by Reid Hoffman and Mustafa Suleyman, believing in general intelligence to create intelligent assistants.
Mentioned as an IPO candidate floated for 2023. Later, discussed extensively regarding its API pricing controversy and user revolt.
Sold 50-51% of its company to Microsoft to gain access to data and compute, highlighting the nuclear arms race in AI.
A significant health concern, with 400 million people infected globally each year, causing 21,000 deaths, which Wolbachia-infected mosquitoes help combat.
Another virus carried by Aedes aegypti mosquitoes, causing 200,000 cases and 30,000 deaths annually.
A practice involving jumping into extremely cold water (e.g., 45 degrees Fahrenheit) after heat exposure, shown to be physiologically optimal when combined with sauna.
The most common disease-carrying mosquito species responsible for transmitting yellow fever, Dengue, and Zika.
A natural bacteria found in mosquitoes that makes them resistant to viruses like Dengue fever, used in a public health project to reduce disease spread.
Actress who stars in the film Tár.
Founder of Expedia and Zillow, who discussed the 'race to intimacy' in UI design for the AI age.
CEO of Meta, who believes in a future with hundreds of specialized AI agents rather than one super agent.
Veteran venture capitalist known for discussing optimal venture fund sizes and the dangers of overfunding.
Anticipated a hard landing for the economy in Q4 based on the bank crisis.
Reportedly being courted by Meta to join Project 92, its new text-based social network.
Presidential candidate who retweeted misinformation about Bill Gates genetically modifying mosquitoes, contributing to scientific illiteracy.
Co-founder of DeepMind; also a co-founder of Inflection AI, noted for his perspective on general AI solving vertical problems.
Chairman of the Federal Reserve, whose statements about data dependence and likely future rate hikes have confused markets.
Highly respected venture capitalist, proposed as someone CalPERS should have called for investment advice.
Published that he spent $75 million on hardware (H100s, A100s) for his portfolio companies to use for AI training.
Co-founder of Inflection AI, who believes general intelligence can solve vertical problems horizontally, similar to a personal assistant.
Reportedly being courted by Meta to join Project 92, its new text-based social network.
Subject of misinformation, wrongly accused by RFK Jr. of genetically modifying mosquitoes, when he actually supports projects using Wolbachia bacteria.
Mentioned in relation to Ke Huy Quan (Short Round) winning an Oscar, with pictures of them together.
Cited for his bearish predictions on inflation and rates in 2022, which proved correct at the time.
Mentioned as someone who also discussed the research on heat and cold exposure on his podcast.
Veteran venture capitalist known for discussing optimal venture fund sizes.
Cited for his argument against GMOs, emphasizing asymmetric downside risks from technology.
Guest on the podcast, a managing partner of a large venture firm, offering insights on market trends, AI investments, and venture capital strategies.
Famous actress from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, who starred in Everything Everywhere All at Once.
Mentioned in relation to Ke Huy Quan (Short Round) winning an Oscar, with pictures of them together.
Mentioned as a researcher whose podcast references a study on heat and cold exposure for physiological benefits.
Meta executive who reportedly discussed Project 92 at an internal all-hands meeting.
Morgan Stanley analyst who correctly predicted the awful market in 2022 but was wrong about a hard landing in Q1 2023.
Host of a podcast where Mark Zuckerberg mentioned being inspired by Blue Sky for Project 92.
Founder of Oculus, who raised initial funding through Kickstarter by pre-selling devices.
Mentioned in the context of venture capital firms taking losses during market downturns, humorously rhymed for discretion.
The Fed decided to pause rate hikes after 11 consecutive increases but indicated potential for more later in the year, leaving markets perplexed about economic outlook.
Cited as an example of a company with a speculative AI angle (AI journalists) that saw a quick stock pop but is likely to be delisted.
America's largest public pension fund, managing $444 billion, which is dramatically increasing its allocation to venture capital after years of underinvesting and poor returns.
Co-founders were present at a dinner discussion about AI, highlighting their significant role in AI development.
Discussed as a massive infrastructure project that began as a 'dog food' project on Amazon Retail's own needs, not a startup.
Meta's upcoming text-based social network, aiming to compete with Twitter by paying creators, reportedly targeting celebrities like Oprah.
A social networking initiative that reportedly inspired Mark Zuckerberg's Project 92.
Google's AI model, noted for its rapid progress in integrating images and menu items into search results, seen as a strong competitor to ChatGPT.
An AI model, discussed as a potential 'aggregator of services' and its use with the Zillow plugin.
A film that one speaker found boring and self-absorbed, suggesting it's good for sleeping, while another considered it the best film of the year.
Praised as an unbelievable, incredible film that won Best Picture at the Oscars, despite initial skepticism about Oscar awards.
A natural mineral sunscreen recommended over chemical sunscreens containing endocrine disruptors like oxybenzone, octinoxate, homosalate, and parabens.
Gaming headset that was successfully funded on Kickstarter, as an example of constraint-driven startup success.
Described as 'the new hotness,' it raises heart rate and helps with sleep. One speaker plans to get one with an ice bath.
Expensive and scarce hardware, along with A100s, needed for training AI models, driving up the size of seed rounds for AI startups like Mistral AI.
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