Key Moments

E133: Market melt-up, IPO update, AI startups overheat, Reddit revolts & more with Brad Gerstner

All-In PodcastAll-In Podcast
People & Blogs5 min read119 min video
Jun 16, 2023|404,457 views|5,660|787
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TL;DR

Market trends, AI startup valuations, Reddit's revolt, and investment strategies discussed in detail.

Key Insights

1

The Federal Reserve's pause in rate hikes signals a shift, but future increases are anticipated, impacting market outlook.

2

AI is driving significant growth and valuations in tech, with companies like Google positioning themselves in this evolving landscape.

3

The IPO market is showing signs of activity with companies like ARM, but companies must now offer greater margins of safety.

4

While AI is sparking innovation, many startups are overvalued, with a focus on compute and hardware rather than sustainable IP.

5

Reddit's protest against API pricing highlights the ongoing tension between platforms, content creators, and third-party developers.

6

Investment strategies need to adapt to a high-rate environment, focusing on disciplined capital allocation and avoiding overvalued 'teaser bets'.

MARKET AND FED WATCH

The discussion opens with a brief mention of bestie intros and Chamath's public flight experience, before diving into macroeconomics. The Federal Reserve's recent pause on rate hikes is analyzed, noted as the first pause after consecutive hikes. While this signals a temporary breather, the expectation of further hikes later in the year tempers immediate market optimism, suggesting a cautious approach rather than a definitive end to monetary tightening.

IPO WINDOW AND VALUATIONS

The IPO market is showing tentative signs of life with companies like ARM confidentially filing, aiming for a significant valuation. However, the consensus is that any company pursuing an IPO in the current climate must offer a substantial 'margin of safety' to investors, a stark contrast to the low-margin deals of 2020-2021. This implies a more discerning investment landscape where companies need to justify their valuations with stronger fundamentals.

THE AI GOLD RUSH AND ITS PITFALLS

Artificial Intelligence is identified as a primary driver of the current tech stock surge. While AI presents immense opportunities, there's a concern that many AI startups are overheating, with valuations outpacing actual development. Significant capital is being funneled into hardware like GPUs and compute power, potentially leading to a 'subsidizing capex' scenario rather than investing in groundbreaking IP. This raises questions about the sustainability of current valuations and the long-term viability of these ventures.

GOOGLE'S AI POSITIONING

Google's role in the AI revolution is a key topic. Despite perceptions of being behind in generative AI, discussions suggest Google is not as far behind as some believe and has significant advantages in indexing and distribution. The '20 trillion dollar question' is posed: how will the web's open architecture be re-architected by AI? Google faces the challenge of potential cannibalization of its core search business as AI shifts user interaction paradigms towards conversational interfaces and agents.

CHALLENGES IN PUBLIC AND VENTURE MARKETS

Venturing into public markets is complex, with discussions on Jay Trading's success and how Brad Gerstner formulates his bets as a public market investor. Simultaneously, venture capital faces scrutiny. CalPERS' decision to increase its AI venture allocation is discussed, alongside concerns about 'teaser bets' and 'toxic assets' in venture funds. The conversation emphasizes the importance of disciplined investing and learning from historical cycles, especially in a high-rate environment.

REDDIT'S MOD REVOLT AND API ECONOMICS

Reddit's platform-wide protest by moderators highlights a critical issue: the economics of user-generated content and API access. Reddit's attempt to monetize its API for AI training and third-party apps, impacting services like Apollo, mirrors past platform strategies from Twitter and Facebook. This revolt underscores the power of community and content creators, questioning the traditional model where platforms monetize data without sufficiently compensating those who generate it.

THE FUTURE OF INTERACTION AND DATA CONTROL

The conversation shifts to the future of user interaction, moving beyond '10 blue links' to conversational AI agents. While some envision a single, all-knowing assistant, others predict a more fragmented landscape with specialized agents. A crucial takeaway is the importance of user control over their data. The Reddit protest serves as an example of users revolting when their data and contributions are perceived to be unfairly monetized, suggesting a future where users may increasingly gate or rent their data directly.

THE '20 TRILLION DOLLAR QUESTION': AI AND THE WEB

The fundamental rewiring of the internet due to AI is framed as the '20 trillion dollar question.' Search, the long-standing monetization engine, faces disruption. The shift is towards knowledge extraction and intelligent agents, challenging the traditional web page and advertising model. While Google and others will compete, the ultimate architecture of user interaction with AI remains uncertain, with debates around a single super-agent versus a network of specialized agents, and the pivotal role of data control residing with the user.

INVESTMENT STRATEGY IN A NEW PARADIGM

In the current investment climate, the hosts advocate for a disciplined approach, emphasizing patience and rigorous analysis. They caution against participating in the current AI exuberance without sufficient margin of safety, drawing parallels to past market bubbles. The focus should be on companies with sustainable advantages, particularly in the application and tooling layers of AI, rather than solely on foundational model development, where capital costs are immense and rapidly decreasing.

THE POWER OF WRITING AND RESEARCH

The session highlights the value of long-form writing, such as deal memos, over superficial presentations like decks. This approach fosters clarity of thought, attracts thoughtful critique, and facilitates better decision-making for both founders and capital allocators. It's presented as a fundamental skill for navigating complex investment landscapes and understanding nuanced market dynamics.

SCALING AI AND COMPUTER CAPITAL

The immense capital required for AI development, particularly for training models and acquiring hardware like GPUs, is a significant theme. Discussions around companies raising hundreds of millions in seed rounds for compute underscore a potential misallocation of capital, where investors might be subsidizing infrastructure costs rather than investing in core innovation. The rapid reduction in training costs suggests a need for investors to critically assess the long-term sustainability of such capital-intensive strategies.

SCIENCE, ENGINEERING, AND MISINFORMATION

A notable segment addresses the spread of misinformation regarding scientific advancements. The example of genetically modified mosquitoes used for disease control is scrutinized, debunking claims of genetic modification and emphasizing the benefits of such public health initiatives. The broader point is made that human ingenuity and scientific engineering have been critical for progress, and a nuanced understanding of technology is vital to avoid succumbing to fear-based misinformation.

THE EVOLVING ECONOMIC MODEL OF CONTENT

Comparing content creator compensation on platforms like YouTube versus legacy platforms reveals a disparity that needs addressing. The rise of platforms that promise to pay creators, like Meta's Project 92, suggests a shift towards more equitable revenue-sharing models. This aligns with the broader trend of users seeking greater control and monetization opportunities for their contributions, moving value away from centralized platforms towards individuals and communities.

Historical Market Multiples (Internet & Software Companies)

Data extracted from this episode

PeriodMultiple Relative to 10-Year Average
Peak (2020-2021)50-70% above average
Trough (End of 2022)30-40% below average
Current (Early 2023)Below 10-year average

AI Model Training Cost Reduction

Data extracted from this episode

ModelInitial CostCost in 18 Months (Estimated)Cost Reduction
GPT-4400 million5-10 million100x

Dengue Fever Infection Reduction from Wolbachia Mosquitoes

Data extracted from this episode

Region TypeDengue Infection RateReduction
No Wolbachia Release9.4%N/A
Wolbachia Release2.3%75%

Common Questions

The speaker was impressed by Southwest Airlines due to its low cost ($49 for a flight to Vegas) and efficient boarding process, allowing him to get a front-row seat easily.

Topics

Mentioned in this video

Companies
Arm Holdings

Confidentially filed for an IPO, seeking to raise $8-10 billion. Its valuation is debated, with one speaker believing it could be worth $25 billion, not $70 billion.

Zillow

One of two vertical search engines founded by Rich Barton, discussed for its potential role in a hyper-fragmented AI future and its plugin for ChatGPT.

Harlan Estate

A wine producer, specifically its 2014 vintage, which is called 'underrated' and 'excellent' by one speaker.

Southwest Airlines

The speaker praises Southwest Airlines for its low fares and efficiency, having flown for $49 and in the front row, reaching Vegas in an hour.

SoftBank

Owns ARM and seeks liquidity through its IPO, having experienced significant write-downs in its Vision Fund.

Lightspeed Venture Partners

Mentioned as one of the firms CalPERS has invested in recently, indicating a shift in their VC strategy.

NVIDIA

Tried to acquire ARM for $40 billion. Its stock has performed extraordinarily well due to AI-related demand, with Q2 revenue guidance revised significantly upwards.

Google

Mentioned as a company with a valid AI angle; expected to fiercely compete in the AI search landscape, potentially cannibalizing its existing search revenue.

Yelp

Google tried to 'kill' Yelp, but users continue to use both services; an example of a vertical search engine that persists despite aggregator attempts.

Mistral AI

A startup that raised a $105 million seed round at a $240 million valuation without writing any code, primarily to fund compute resources (100H GPUs).

Expedia

One of two vertical search engines founded by Rich Barton, discussed in terms of its future in an AI-driven, conversational UI world.

Databricks

A fantastic company doing over a billion in revenue and growing extraordinarily fast, also queueing up for a potential IPO.

TPG

Mentioned as one of the firms CalPERS has invested in recently, indicating a shift in their VC strategy.

Goldman Sachs

Referenced for its consensus inflation forecast of 3.7%, contrasting the Fed's 3.2% projection.

Microsoft

Mentioned as a company with a super valid AI angle, also one of the most valuable tech stocks.

Uber

Mentioned as an example of a company that has seen significant stock recovery, up 67% this year.

Meta Platforms

Its stock has doubled off the bottom. Also discussed for its potential new text-based social network 'Project 92' to compete with Twitter and pay creators.

Inflection AI

Company co-founded by Reid Hoffman and Mustafa Suleyman, believing in general intelligence to create intelligent assistants.

Reddit

Mentioned as an IPO candidate floated for 2023. Later, discussed extensively regarding its API pricing controversy and user revolt.

OpenAI

Sold 50-51% of its company to Microsoft to gain access to data and compute, highlighting the nuclear arms race in AI.

People
Kate Blanchett

Actress who stars in the film Tár.

Rich Barton

Founder of Expedia and Zillow, who discussed the 'race to intimacy' in UI design for the AI age.

Mark Zuckerberg

CEO of Meta, who believes in a future with hundreds of specialized AI agents rather than one super agent.

Bill Gurley

Veteran venture capitalist known for discussing optimal venture fund sizes and the dangers of overfunding.

Stan Druckenmiller

Anticipated a hard landing for the economy in Q4 based on the bank crisis.

Dalai Lama

Reportedly being courted by Meta to join Project 92, its new text-based social network.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Presidential candidate who retweeted misinformation about Bill Gates genetically modifying mosquitoes, contributing to scientific illiteracy.

Mustafa Suleyman

Co-founder of DeepMind; also a co-founder of Inflection AI, noted for his perspective on general AI solving vertical problems.

Jerome Powell

Chairman of the Federal Reserve, whose statements about data dependence and likely future rate hikes have confused markets.

Doug Leone

Highly respected venture capitalist, proposed as someone CalPERS should have called for investment advice.

Nat Friedman

Published that he spent $75 million on hardware (H100s, A100s) for his portfolio companies to use for AI training.

Reid Hoffman

Co-founder of Inflection AI, who believes general intelligence can solve vertical problems horizontally, similar to a personal assistant.

Oprah Winfrey

Reportedly being courted by Meta to join Project 92, its new text-based social network.

Bill Gates

Subject of misinformation, wrongly accused by RFK Jr. of genetically modifying mosquitoes, when he actually supports projects using Wolbachia bacteria.

Harrison Ford

Mentioned in relation to Ke Huy Quan (Short Round) winning an Oscar, with pictures of them together.

Larry Summers

Cited for his bearish predictions on inflation and rates in 2022, which proved correct at the time.

Joe Rogan

Mentioned as someone who also discussed the research on heat and cold exposure on his podcast.

Fred Wilson

Veteran venture capitalist known for discussing optimal venture fund sizes.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Cited for his argument against GMOs, emphasizing asymmetric downside risks from technology.

Brad Gerstner

Guest on the podcast, a managing partner of a large venture firm, offering insights on market trends, AI investments, and venture capital strategies.

Michelle Yeoh

Famous actress from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, who starred in Everything Everywhere All at Once.

Steven Spielberg

Mentioned in relation to Ke Huy Quan (Short Round) winning an Oscar, with pictures of them together.

Andrew Huberman

Mentioned as a researcher whose podcast references a study on heat and cold exposure for physiological benefits.

Chris Cox

Meta executive who reportedly discussed Project 92 at an internal all-hands meeting.

Mike Wilson

Morgan Stanley analyst who correctly predicted the awful market in 2022 but was wrong about a hard landing in Q1 2023.

Lex Fridman

Host of a podcast where Mark Zuckerberg mentioned being inspired by Blue Sky for Project 92.

Palmer Luckey

Founder of Oculus, who raised initial funding through Kickstarter by pre-selling devices.

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