Key Moments
A Shocking Turn in the War on Men - Richard Reeves
Modern WisdomKey Moments
Men's issues are finally gaining political traction due to a Democratic electoral deficit with young men, but activists are psychologically reluctant to celebrate wins, fearing loss of identity.
Key Insights
Governors like Nuome (CA), Whitmer (MI), WesMoore (MD), and Cox (UT) have launched significant initiatives to support boys and men.
Two bills have been introduced in Congress: one for a men's health strategy and office, and the 'Men Matter Bill' for mental health support after fatherhood.
A significant political motivation for addressing men's issues is the Democratic Party's realization of a substantial loss of support from men, particularly young men, in the 2024 election.
Activists, across various movements including men's rights, LGBTQ+, and climate, can be psychologically reluctant to succeed because their identity and purpose are tied to the struggle.
The 'masculinity vertigo' experienced by young men stems from conflicting societal messages, telling them to be more masculine one day and more feminine the next, leading to apathy and distrust of all advice.
Recent data suggests that millennial fathers spend as much time with their children as baby boomer mothers did, indicating a significant increase in hands-on fathering.
A Shift in Political and Cultural Awareness
The conversation around the challenges facing boys and men has evolved significantly, moving from a state of frustration and lack of political space to tangible policy and initiatives. Richard Reeves highlights that it's no longer difficult to get politicians, particularly on the center-left, to acknowledge the problem and take action. He points to numerous governors and legislative efforts, such as the 'Men Matter Bill,' as evidence of this progress. This shift is partly attributed to electoral politics, with Democrats recognizing their falling support among men, especially young men, and the need to address these issues to win elections. While some may dismiss these efforts as purely political, Reeves argues that this is how democracies are intended to function, with politicians responding to voter concerns.
The political impetus for change
The 2024 election results served as a critical wake-up call for the Democratic Party, revealing a significant deficit in support from men, particularly younger demographics. This electoral reality has spurred action, with several Democratic governors initiating programs focused on men and boys. Reeves notes that many of these governors are also potential presidential candidates, underscoring the perceived electoral necessity of addressing this demographic. While acknowledging the political dimension, Reeves defends politicians for engaging in politics, stating that it's a positive outcome when policy reflects the needs of a significant portion of the electorate. This political calculus is seen as a key driver behind the recent surge in attention to men's issues.
The psychological barrier to progress: activist reluctance to win
A fascinating psychological phenomenon discussed is the 'activist's reluctance to succeed.' Reeves explains that for individuals deeply invested in a cause, their identity and purpose can become so intertwined with the struggle that success itself can be destabilizing. This is observed across various movements, where acknowledging progress might require a fundamental shift in self-identity, which can be psychologically challenging. The example of the New York Times' use of the word 'racism' increasing dramatically while actual reported racism may not have, illustrates how careers and identities can become dependent on identifying problems. This reluctance to take wins can hinder progress, as it perpetuates a 'glass half empty' perspective, even when tangible improvements are made. The fear is that if the problem is solved, the activist's role and purpose diminish, leading to a psychological resistance to final victory.
Institutionalization and the desire for 'boring' progress
Reeves emphasizes the importance of institutionalizing efforts to address the challenges faced by boys and men. He uses Virginia's potential creation of a Commission on Boys and Men, alongside an existing Commission on Women and Girls, as an example of making these issues a permanent part of policymaking. This move, if enacted, would ensure that the issues concerning boys and men are consistently at the policy table. Reeves' ultimate goal is for men's issues to become 'boring' – to be so mainstream and regularly addressed that they are no longer a novel or politically charged topic, but a standard part of societal functioning. This would signify true integration and sustained attention, moving beyond temporary policy initiatives or fads.
The challenge of men's roles and the 'masculinity vertigo'
The conversation delves into the confusion and conflicting messages young men receive regarding masculinity, termed 'masculinity vertigo.' Reeves and the interviewer discuss how societal narratives often swing from telling men they're not masculine enough to accusing them of toxic masculinity. This creates a challenging environment where men struggle to understand their roles and expectations. This internal conflict, coupled with systemic issues in education and employment, can lead to feelings of aimlessness and a 'deficit framing,' where men are seen as the problem rather than facing systemic challenges. The lack of clear, positive role models and the vacuousness left by the decline of traditional masculinity are significant concerns, leading some men to disengage and seek answers in less constructive online spaces.
The 'We Need You' message versus 'We're Here to Help'
A crucial distinction is made between the message 'we're here to help you' and 'we need you.' Reeves argues that while support is necessary, the more empowering and vital message for young men is that society needs them. This reframing shifts the focus from passive recipients of aid to active contributors, emphasizing their inherent value and role. This is particularly important in the context of declining civic engagement and the need for men in roles such as teachers, mentors, and community leaders. The historical creation of organizations like the Boy Scouts and Big Brothers Big Sisters in response to societal needs for boys and young men is cited as an example of how a sense of purpose and being needed can be fostered.
Rethinking Marriage, Fatherhood, and the "Mate Value" debate
The discussion touches upon evolving notions of marriage and fatherhood, highlighting the increasing involvement of fathers in childcare and household duties. Controversial concepts like 'mate value' are examined, with a critique of the idea that attraction is solely superficial or market-driven. Reeves and the interviewer suggest that long-term relationships and personal qualities play a significant role in mate selection and that focusing solely on a transactional 'marketplace' view of dating is reductive and potentially harmful, especially for marriage. They also address the 'deadbeat dad' and 'doofus dad' stereotypes, arguing that fathers are increasingly involved and contributing significantly to family life, often performing as much work (paid and unpaid) as mothers.
Addressing the 'feminization' and economic shifts
The conversation considers the concept of societal 'feminization,' with Reeves expressing concern about the disproportionate feminization of key professions like mental healthcare, psychology, social work, and K-12 education. He argues that this trend, driven by economic shifts and job market dynamics, has implications for both the professions and for men's place in the workforce. Reeves advocates for getting more men into these growing fields, rather than solely focusing on traditional male-dominated industries. He also pushes back against the idea that more women in these fields inherently makes them 'less good,' emphasizing the need for a balanced workforce composition and questioning negative assumptions about women's impact on these professions. The discussion also touches on the decline in fertility rates, challenging the simplistic notion that women's workforce participation is the sole cause.
Cultural shifts in gender roles and the future of masculinity
Reeves expresses optimism about young people's ability to navigate changing gender roles. He believes that while the current period is messy, future generations are actively trying to reconcile traditional values with modern realities. The ongoing rise in hands-on fathering and the increasing willingness of fathers to take parental leave are seen as positive indicators. However, he also notes the potential for a 'cultural race to the bottom' through excessive pessimism and deficit framing regarding men's issues. Reeves advocates for a more balanced perspective, acknowledging real challenges while also highlighting progress and the inherent value of men and fatherhood, pushing back against both dismissive rhetoric from the left and reactionary narratives from the right.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Supplements
●Products
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●Books
●Drugs & Medications
●Concepts
●People Referenced
Working Parents' Contributions to Paid and Unpaid Work
Data extracted from this episode
| Category | Moms (Hours/Week) | Dads (Hours/Week) | Total (Hours/Week) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Paid Work | 35+ | 45+ | |
| Unpaid Work | 8 more than dads | 8 less than moms | |
| Total Work Week | 60 each (approx) |
Institute for Family Studies Survey Findings (Young Men 18-29)
Data extracted from this episode
| Finding | Percentage | Interpretation |
|---|---|---|
| Unmarried men want to get married | 68% | Desire for marriage exists despite common narratives |
| Unmarried men unsure about marriage | 21% | Indicates uncertainty, not outright rejection |
| Not in romantic relationship | 59% | A majority are single |
| Single men open to dating | 74% (of those not in relationships) | Despite being single, a strong desire to date |
| Childless men want to be a father | 62% | Lower than expected, but a clear desire for fatherhood |
| Men aged 24-29 feel like adults | <50% | Traditional benchmarks (marriage, parenthood, work, education) influence adult feeling |
| Number one role model is mother | 79% | Mothers play a critical role in shaping young men |
| Role model is father | 69% | Fathers also remain significant role models |
| Andrew Tate ranked last among prominent figures | Challenges the idea of his widespread positive influence | |
| Manhood requires willingness to sacrifice for others | 89% | Contradicts 'manosphere' narrative of self-serving behavior |
| Trade school graduates employed full-time (vs. college) | 77% vs 80% | Trade school offers comparable employment outcomes to college |
Common Questions
The political landscape has shifted significantly, with governors like Newsom, Whitmer, Moore, and Cox introducing serious initiatives to promote boys and men. There are also bills in Congress for men's health strategies, indicating a new political space for these issues, especially after Democrats recognized a decline in support among young men in the 2024 election.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
Athletic apparel company whose founder Ben Francis is cited for his leadership philosophy.
Platform where Louis Theroux's documentary on young men premiered.
An electrolyte drink with a science-backed ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, recommended for hydration and reducing muscle cramps and fatigue.
A company from which Gymshark hired a CEO, illustrating Ben Francis's willingness to step down for the business's growth.
Governor of California who signed an executive order and launched initiatives to help boys and men in education, employment, and mental health.
Governor mentioned as having serious initiatives to promote boys and men.
Governor of Maryland, noted for serious initiatives to help boys and men, especially regarding mental health and paternity leave.
Governor of Utah, mentioned for his serious initiatives to promote boys and men.
Supreme Court Justice who authored a civil rights victory including trans people under sex discrimination law, which the speaker praises as significant.
Founder and CEO of Gymshark, known for his leadership philosophy about prioritizing the business's aspirations over personal ones.
Author whose work appeared in Politico, mentioned in the context of the series on men's issues.
British actor and documentary maker who released a series about young men, notably interviewing William Costello about incel killings.
Mentioned as someone interviewed by Ross Kemp, correctly stating the low number of incel-related killings, countering media sensationalism.
Public figure mentioned as someone who fills the cultural vacuum by speaking to men when mainstream culture doesn't provide guidance.
Political commentator mentioned as someone who fills the cultural vacuum by speaking to men when mainstream culture doesn't provide guidance.
Comedian and talk show host who did a segment on looksmaxing from a feminist perspective.
Pollster who wrote a piece on 'masculinity vertigo,' describing the conflicting messages young men receive about masculinity.
Anthropologist whose work on the 'invention of fatherhood' is referenced, emphasizing its social construct.
Co-author with the speaker on a piece in the Times about the boy crisis of the early 20th century.
Author of 'Fair Play,' mentioned in the context of the 'second shift' phenomenon where women often do more housework and childcare.
Friend of the speaker, mentioned as an academic who was surprised by the host's depth of knowledge during an interview.
Philanthropist who has supported work on boys and men as part of her gender equality agenda, which the speaker views as a positive despite its framing.
Documentary filmmaker whose work on young men and incels is discussed, highlighting the lag between cultural events and media portrayal.
MP in the UK who put forward a men's health strategy and participated in a serious parliamentary debate on International Men's Day.
Podcaster mentioned as someone who fills the cultural vacuum by speaking to men when mainstream culture doesn't provide guidance.
Internet personality mentioned as someone who fills the cultural vacuum by speaking to men when mainstream culture doesn't provide guidance.
Academic whose paper from 20 years ago described the contributions of mothers and fathers in full-time working households as 'amazingly similar.'
Thought leader whose writings on leadership roles within a household were alluded to, sparking a discussion on gender hierarchy.
Author who wrote a controversial piece on the 'feminization of society,' which the speaker disagreed with empirically.
Author who has written about the decline in dating among high schoolers and young adults.
Author of the short story 'Harrison Bergeron,' used as an analogy for a society that enforces equality through handicaps, a 'flattening' type of equality.
Journalist for the Washington Post with whom the speaker debated about marriage and the idea of 'settling.'
Author of 'Toxic Demography' and TED Talk speaker, whose conclusion links declining fertility rates to a lack of gender equality.
Researcher whose work is supported by Melinda French Gates, focusing on gender equality and men's issues.
Evolutionary psychologist who authored 'Bonded by Evolution,' suggesting mate value is more complex than typically understood and can flatten over time with revealed preferences.
Senator and author who condemned Andrew Tate, demonstrating a broad consensus against Tate's views across political lines.
Governor of Florida, whose Attorney General (AG) condemned Andrew Tate.
Evolutionary psychologist mentioned as a well-meaning scientist whose work is predictive and demonstrates an openness to changing theories.
Country artist who released a song 'I Sit in Parks' about her regret over prioritizing career over motherhood, which resonated with many women.
Journalist who debated Scott Galloway on the topic of paternity leave, arguing for its importance for gender equality.
Former U.S. President who, in a podcast with his wife, acknowledged the mistake of not intentionally investing in boys as much as girls.
Guest on the show who pushed back against women's current societal roles, implying it affects fertility rates.
Author of the upcoming book 'Dad Brain,' whose work explores how men's brains change after becoming fathers.
Advisory board member for the speaker's institute, who expressed controversial views on paternity leave and men's presence at childbirth.
Philosopher and speaker's hero, quoted as noting the intellectual snobbery in favor of pessimism.
Journalist and political commentator who condemned Andrew Tate.
Conservative commentator who condemned Andrew Tate.
Two bills were introduced to Congress to create a men's health strategy and office, and to help men with mental health after fatherhood.
Mentioned in the context of analyzing the use of the word 'racism' in its publications over the last 20 years, noting a disconnect with actual racism rates.
Mentioned as an example of a movement whose reputation was damaged by issues of financial transparency and leadership.
An organization that encouraged MPs to tell dad jokes at the beginning of a parliamentary debate on International Men's Day, which was seen as a positive step.
Civic organization created in the early 20th century in response to the 'boy crisis,' largely staffed by men.
Civic organization created in the early 20th century in response to the 'boy crisis,' largely staffed by men.
Civic organization created in the early 20th century in response to the 'boy crisis,' largely staffed by men.
The speaker's organization, which advocates for the flourishing of boys and men and publishes policy briefs on relevant issues like sports betting.
University attended by the speaker's youngest son, where he observed a return to traditional manners like opening doors for women.
An organization working with colleges to address the declining male enrollment, as many colleges worry about gender imbalance.
Organization that conducted a survey of 2,000 young men aged 18-29, challenging conventional narratives about male crisis in America.
News organization that conducted a poll ranking men and women by their presidential candidate choice, showing family and kids were top priority for Trump-voting men.
Research organization cited for data on why people don't have kids, with 'don't feel ready yet' being the top reason.
An example of a single-sex college that Title IX carves out, allowing it to admit women only, but conversely leading other private colleges to favor male applicants.
A bill introduced to Congress aimed at creating a men's health strategy and office, and supporting men's mental health after fatherhood.
Anti-sex discrimination law in higher education, with an exception for undergraduate admissions to private colleges to preserve single-sex institutions.
A political news publication that ran a four-part series on the crisis of boys and men, all written by women, which the host sees as a form of lip service.
News organization mentioned in the context of occasional headlines about men's issues, suggesting it doesn't adequately cover the topic.
Book by Eve Rodsky discussing the unequal distribution of domestic tasks and childcare, sometimes referred to as the 'second shift.'
Book by Paul Eastwick which challenges conventional notions of mate value, positing that it's more complex and flattens over time as individuals get to know each other.
An upcoming book by Darby Saxbe research that explores the physiological changes in men's brains after they become fathers.
A book co-authored by Jennifer Schuber, concluding that a lack of gender equality is a primary cause of declining fertility rates.
Contains Urolithin A, which promotes mitophagy to clear damaged mitochondria and renew healthy ones, supporting mitochondrial function and muscle strength, especially for recovery and staying strong with age.
The latest evolution of AG1, retaining its core benefits of 75 vitamins, minerals, and probiotics, but now backed by four clinical trials demonstrating its efficacy in closing nutrient gaps, boosting gut bacteria, and improving nutrient levels.
A three-in-one fiber formula designed to support digestion, gut barrier strength, and blood sugar stability, addressing widespread fiber deficiency.
A daily nutritional supplement containing 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole-food ingredients, backed by four clinical trials for nutrient gap filling, gut health, and nutrient levels.
A fictional portrayal that generated significant discussion and criticism for its framing and interpretation of young men's issues in the UK.
Fantasy epic mentioned in a metaphorical context about vacuums being filled.
A satirical short story by Kurt Vonnegut describing a dystopian society where individuals with above-average intellect, beauty, or talent are handicapped to enforce equality.
Music publication mentioned as symbolizing cultural approval for career focus, contrasting with a singer's personal regret about delayed motherhood.
News organization mentioned as not representing mainstream culture, similar to The New York Times.
A song by Kelsea Ballerini reflecting on regret about delaying motherhood for a career, which hit a nerve culturally.
A pessimistic ideology or worldview, especially within manosphere communities, suggesting that men's outcomes are largely determined by genetics and appearance, and cannot be changed.
Men Going Their Own Way, an online community advocating for men's separation from women, which the speaker connects with looksmaxing.
Species of monkey identified as having some of the best dads in the natural world, with fathers taking on most caregiving responsibilities aside from breastfeeding.
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