Key Moments
Kelsi Sheren: War, Artillery, PTSD, and Love | Lex Fridman Podcast #230
Lex FridmanKey Moments
Kelsi Sheren on war, PTSD, and healing through alternative therapies, highlighting the human cost of conflict.
Key Insights
The importance of sharing historical narratives and personal war stories to understand human nature and prevent future atrocities, especially given the silence of many WWII veterans.
The devastating psychological impact of war, particularly for young soldiers like Kelsi, leading to severe PTSD, anger, hatred, and detachment from humanity.
The critical need for comprehensive mental health support and training for soldiers, both before and after deployment, to build resilience and prevent long-term suffering.
The challenges and complexities of modern warfare, exemplified by improvised explosive devices (IEDs) and the deliberate blending of combatants with civilian populations.
Ayahuasca proved to be a profoundly transformative experience for Kelsi, aiding in her recovery from PTSD and fostering a reconnection with her humanity and inner strength.
The deep disillusionment with government policies regarding veteran care and the handling of the Afghanistan withdrawal, highlighting a perceived lack of accountability and support for those who served.
THE SILENCE OF HISTORY AND THE PULL OF WORLD WAR II
Kelsi Sheren discusses the impact of studying history, particularly World War II, a fascination she attributes to family connections and an unexplained deep pull. She laments the silence of many WWII veterans, including her Ukrainian grandparents who survived the Holodomor and Nazi occupation, noting that their reluctance to share experiences deprives younger generations of crucial lessons and a sense of ancestral strength. Lex Fridman and Kelsi reflect on the unsettling aspects of human nature exposed during WWII, such as the scale of evil and the collective following of charismatic dictators, pondering if such events could recur due to ignorance of history.
THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND THE TRAGEDY OF STARVATION
Kelsi condemns the trivialization of terms like 'Hitler' and 'Nazi' in modern discourse, emphasizing a widespread lack of understanding regarding the true horrors they represent. She highlights the profound suffering caused by starvation, drawing parallels to her grandmother's experiences and the ongoing crisis in North Korea. Kelsi expresses deep concern for Yeonmi Park, a North Korean defector, and the psychological trauma she endured, questioning whether awareness of abuse leads to greater suffering or the possibility of healing. Both reflect on the complex ethical dilemmas of intervening in oppressive regimes like North Korea, especially given China's geopolitical influence.
DECEPTION IN RECRUITMENT AND THE CANADIAN MILITARY'S LACK OF SUPPORT
Kelsi critiques military recruitment videos, favoring Russia's raw, intimidating approach over the U.S. and Canada's sanitized, animated presentations. She argues for tougher physical and mental standards for soldiers, dismissing the notion that training them to be 'harder' negates the need for mental health support. Kelsi shares her own rigorous athletic background, including taekwondo and rugby, where an exhibition game resulted in a severe eye injury. This aggression, she admits, was often fueled by personal trauma, such as the betrayal she felt after her taekwondo coach's arrest.
9/11 AND THE SEED OF CONFLICT
Kelsi vividly recalls 9/11 at age 11, noting her mother's panic and the subsequent fear among Middle Eastern families in her Canadian community. While she initially struggled to grasp the full scope of the tragedy, it ignited a desire to 'do something' to honor the victims, leading her to write a poem for a memorial. This event, she believes, subtly planted the seeds for her later decision to join the military and engage in global conflict, although she had not consciously recognized that connection during her extensive therapy.
JOINING THE MILITARY AND THE CALL TO ARTILLERY
Despite no prior exposure to weapons, Kelsi felt a strong pull towards military service after meeting a World War II Air Force veteran. Dissatisfied with college life, she followed her gut instinct to join the army, driven by a desire to be on the front lines. Deemed too small for infantry at 103 pounds and five feet tall, she opted for artillery gunner, believing it offered a significant impact. Artillery, she explains, involves firing powerful 155mm howitzers that deliver precise strikes, often in support of infantry, using advanced GPS-guided rounds like the half-million-dollar Excalibur for high-value targets.
THE POWER OF ARTILLERY AND THE SYMPHONY OF WAR
Kelsi offers a detailed, vivid description of artillery operations, from the collaborative 'symphony' of a gun troop working in unison—each member precise in their role—to the primal 'hand of God' feeling of delivering devastating, accurate fire from kilometers away. She recounts the terrifying experience of being 'under' friendly artillery, describing the unique sounds and ground-shaking impact, which she compares to both a video game-like sport and an internal radiation. The sheer power and precision of modern artillery, along with the satisfaction of a 'mission accomplished,' were deeply compelling for her.
WEAPONS TRAINING: FROM ROCKET LAUNCHERS TO GRENADES
Kelsi details her fascinating introduction to various military firearms during training, having never previously handled weapons. She describes the M72 'Carl G' disposable rocket launcher, highlighting the physical impact of firing it and the teamwork required, as well as the C7 and C8 rifles, with the shorter C8 being more functional for her stature. Grenades, with their primitive feel and inherent danger, were also a highlight for her due to their devastating potential in close quarters. She recalls taping her grenades to prevent accidental activation, underscoring the constant awareness of risk.
DEPLOYMENT PREPARATION: FROM QUEBEC TO AFGHANISTAN
Kelsi recounts her accelerated training and early deployment notification at 19, driven by an urgent need for troops in Afghanistan as Canada escalated its combat role. Her posting to a French-speaking unit presented a significant challenge, requiring her to relearn everything in a new language. She describes rigorous physical training, live-fire exercises in Texas simulating the Afghan environment, and intensive work-up training in Wainwright, Alberta, where units practiced combat scenarios against role-playing Taliban. The journey to Afghanistan included a stopover for essential gear, a first exposure to extreme heat, and the chilling moment she realized the stark reality of war as her Chinook flew tactically between mountains.
THE REALITY OF A FORWARD OBSERVATION BASE (FOB)
Upon arrival at Kandahar, a relatively secure base with amenities like Tim Hortons, Kelsi experienced a brief sense of normalcy before deploying to a tiny, remote American-run Forward Observation Base (FOB) called Ramrod. She describes the FOB's precarious construction—gravel-filled mesh walls—and her role in guarding observation towers, offering a stark view of Afghanistan's sandy, flat landscape. Kelsi recounts how she never heard direct enemy fire at her FOB but witnessed daily patrols and heard stories of conflict. She shares a poignant memory of showing an Afghan girl her picture, observing the mother's act of shaving her legs, highlighting unexpected moments of human connection amid the conflict.
THE IED ATTACK AND THE LOSS OF HUMANITY
Kelsi graphically describes the moment an IED detonated during an operation with British forces, killing a friend and propelling body parts into a field. The horror of the blast, amplified by enemy sniper fire and mortar rounds, triggered an immediate, profound shift in her psyche: her 'light switch went off.' She recalls frantically collecting her friend's remains, including his perfectly laced boot and bags of intestines, to prevent their desecration by the Taliban. This experience, she explains, shattered her humanity, replacing it with overwhelming anger, hatred, and a complete dehumanization of the enemy, a state she later struggled to escape.
THE TERRIFYING AFTERMATH: TRAUMA, HYPER-VIGILANCE, AND LOSS
The aftermath of the IED attack left Kelsi with deep-seated trauma, manifesting as a visceral aversion to certain textures of food, particularly anything with skin, reminiscent of handling human remains. She recounts the immediate chaos of collecting body parts, which she only later realized were incomplete, fueling years of survivor's guilt and intense anger. Her experience highlights the brutal and impersonal nature of IEDs, which turn human beings into 'cheese craters,' making it difficult to remember victims as individuals rather than fragmented parts. This event led to a profound distrust of her environment, making her hyper-vigilant even years later.
THE STRUGGLE WITH HATRED AND THE PERILS OF COUNTERINSURGENCY
Returning to her Canadian unit, Kelsi was a changed woman, radiating palpable anger and quiet hatred. She acknowledges the military's perspective on dehumanizing the enemy, recalling Jocko Willink's argument that certain adversaries, like those in Iraq, forfeited their humanity through acts of evil. Kelsi shares this view, maintaining a deep hatred for the Taliban due to their atrocities against women and children, especially when committed in the name of religion. She highlights the challenge of fighting an enemy that deliberately blends with the civilian population, making traditional military victory elusive and creating a cycle of intergenerational hate.
THE RETIREMENT OF VULNERABILITY: A SYSTEMIC FAILURE
Kelsi criticizes the Canadian government's withdrawal from Afghanistan, calling it a 'dumpster fire' of incompetence that abandoned both Afghan allies and Canadian veterans. She details the stark lack of support for veterans, citing personal experiences of being denied aid and public insults from politicians. Kelsi contends that military systems intentionally recruit young, naive individuals and then treat them as disposable numbers, blaming them for their self-inflicted wounds. She argues that the failure lies in the lack of accountable civilian leadership and a pervasive cultural belief that acknowledging mental health struggles in the military is a sign of weakness, leading to a system that encourages soldiers to conceal their suffering.
THE MENTAL BATTLE: PTSD, MEDICATION, AND ISOLATION
Kelsi describes her severe PTSD manifesting as anger, aggression, insomnia, and pervasive avoidance. She reveals being over-medicated immediately after the trauma, leading to debilitating side effects, blackouts, and near-catastrophic incidents during deployments. This 'lazy' approach to mental health, she argues, isolates soldiers and prevents them from processing their experiences rather than providing proper tools for resilience. The military's fear of 'weakness' silences those who struggle, creating a culture where soldiers lie about their mental state to avoid career-ending 'red-flagging,' perpetuating the cycle of untreated trauma.
THE DEPTHS OF DEPRESSION AND THE PATH TO RECOVERY
Grappling with major depressive disorder, Kelsi describes a mind consumed by dark thoughts of suicide, seeing herself as a burden and undeserving of life. The internal struggle was constant, exhausting her to the point of being unable to lift her head. Her then-boyfriend's unwavering support, identifying her drug-induced conversations, became a lifeline. Over six years, she slowly weaned off medications with medical supervision, found stability through cannabis, and rebuilt her life. Despite the overwhelming urge to give up, her inherent drive to 'try' and the presence of loved ones ultimately guided her towards recovery and the establishment of Brass and Unity, her jewelry company.
AYAHUASCA: A ROCKET SHIP TO SELF-DISCOVERY
In January 2021, at a critical juncture of psychological struggle, Kelsi embarked on an ayahuasca journey through the heroic Hearts charity for veterans. After weaning off ten different pharmaceutical drugs, she found herself among a group of elite special operators—a welcome, non-judgmental community. Her first ayahuasca ceremony, intense and physically purging, revealed vivid colors and a palpable spiritual entity she calls 'Mama Aya.' This experience offered profound relief and a sense that her earthly struggles were minuscule in the grander scheme, providing a much-needed light at the end of her tunnel of despair.
THE WOLF WITHIN AND AYAHUASCA'S GUIDANCE
Kelsi details her second ayahuasca ceremony, an even more intense experience where she transformed into a wolf, embodying aggression and a desire to be a pack leader. Through a shaman's prayer, she felt something physically pulled from her throat, and Mama Aya's message was clear: she no longer needed to 'bite' but only to 'show her teeth,' learning to lead with mindful strength rather than aggression. This profound insight, coupled with an out-of-body experience where she protected her family from symbolic 'flyers,' reinforced the need to soften her approach, stop overcompensating, and allow life to unfold organically.
THE POWER OF EMPATHY AND THE FIGHT FOR THE SOUL OF CANADA
Kelsi emphasizes the importance of simple human connection and empathy in supporting those with PTSD, advocating for open conversation and genuine care rather than dismissive platitudes. She criticizes the Canadian government's handling of the pandemic, arguing that its power overreach has stripped citizens' freedoms and created a 'second-class citizen' status for those who resist. Despite her deep love for Canada and her patriotic service, Kelsi feels betrayed by the current state of her country. She expresses gratitude for the individuals who continue to show care and connection, reflecting how small gestures of kindness can profoundly impact mental well-being.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Products
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●People Referenced
Common Questions
Kelsi Sheren felt a deep, inexplicable pull towards World War II history, partly due to her grandfather serving in it and her family escaping Hungary when the Soviets came in. She struggled to comprehend the mass civilian casualties after her own combat experience.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
The college the speaker attended after high school, before joining the military.
A Canadian charity offering a 'home away from home' for veterans and first responders and their families, providing free accommodation during medical care.
An Islamic fundamentalist political movement and military organization in Afghanistan, described as ruthless and using civilians as shields.
A charity based in Washington D.C. that provides college scholarships to military children who have lost a parent in the line of duty.
The unit the speaker joined as an artillery gunner, known for precision firing.
A non-profit providing customized surf equipment and instruction to veterans with disabilities, especially amputees.
A charity that helps veterans heal from PTSD through psychedelic treatments like ayahuasca and psilocybin, providing preparation and integration coaching.
A Canadian non-profit organization advocating for access to psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy for end-of-life care and other conditions.
A charity that supports special operations combat families healing from PTSD and secondary PTSD, focusing on rebuilding relationships.
A non-profit organization that provides support to Green Berets and their families.
A short-barreled Canadian carbine, preferred by the speaker for its functionality and height compatibility.
A neck brace product, whose first office had one of the Good Fucking Design Advice prints.
A tandem rotor, heavy-lift helicopter used to transport M777 Howitzers and personnel in Afghanistan.
A 155mm howitzer, referred to as an 'M triple seven,' a serious and heavy piece of equipment often moved by Chinooks.
A Canadian assault rifle, similar to the M16, used in training.
The dictator of the Soviet Union, compared to Hitler in terms of leadership style and scale of evil.
An American ultramarathon runner, ultra-distance cyclist, triathlete, public speaker, and author, compared to the speaker's intense physical discipline during childhood.
An Army Ranger and founder of Heroic Hearts, a charity focusing on psychedelic treatments for veterans.
The Prime Minister of Canada, criticized for the government's handling of the Afghanistan withdrawal and treatment of veterans.
The dictator of Nazi Germany, discussed as a fascinating example of large-scale evil and charismatic leadership.
A North Korean defector whose story of survival and understanding of abuse is discussed.
American comedian and actor, whose transport company the speaker's mother drove for, leading to an opportunity for networking.
A celebrity chef, author, and television personality, whose death by suicide is discussed, similar to Robin Williams.
A renowned artist whose work is described as the closest visual representation of the vibrant colors experienced during an ayahuasca journey.
A Canadian soldier, Captain, who survived a severe axe injury to the head in Afghanistan and inspired the creation of Honor House.
A Delta Force operator involved in Black Hawk Down, co-founder of the All Secure Foundation.
A famous comedian and actor, whose death by suicide is discussed in the context of successful individuals struggling with depression.
A character from the film series is referenced in comparison to a Russian military recruiting video.
A British rock band, whose song 'Brothers in Arms' is mentioned as having a philosophical take on war.
A film depicting the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu, mentioned in relation to Tom Satterly's military experience.
A reality television series where entrepreneurs present their business ideas to a panel of investors, mentioned in relation to Combat Flip Flops.
Small bases in the middle of combat zones for military units, described as a temporary, less fortified base than Kandahar.
A country discussed in the context of mass starvation and the complexities of intervention, drawing parallels to personal experiences of hunger.
An extension of Honor House, offering equine therapy and focusing on operational stress injury clinics for veterans and first responders.
The capital of Canada, where the speaker attended a Remembrance Day ceremony.
A major military base in Afghanistan where various NATO forces congregated, perceived as a relatively safe space.
Mentioned as a powerful nation that controls a large aspect of the world, making intervention in North Korea complicated.
A psychedelic compound found in mushrooms, mentioned as a substance used for microdosing to treat depression and as part of psychedelic treatments for veterans.
A psychedelic brew used for spiritual and healing purposes, central to the speaker's recovery from PTSD and depression.
A class of antidepressants, mentioned as medications that need to be weaned off before psychedelic treatments like ayahuasca.
A dissociative anesthetic used for psychedelic-assisted therapy, mentioned as another treatment offered by Heroic Hearts.
A design company that published an inspiring book, 'Do the Fucking Work,' and collaborated with the speaker's company on a mug.
A global publishing company, mentioned as the publisher of the 'Do the Fucking Work' book.
A Canadian multinational fast food restaurant chain, present at Kandahar Airfield, indicating a sense of normalcy.
More from Lex Fridman
View all 230 summaries
154 minRick Beato: Greatest Guitarists of All Time, History & Future of Music | Lex Fridman Podcast #492
23 minKhabib vs Lex: Training with Khabib | FULL EXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE
196 minOpenClaw: The Viral AI Agent that Broke the Internet - Peter Steinberger | Lex Fridman Podcast #491
266 minState of AI in 2026: LLMs, Coding, Scaling Laws, China, Agents, GPUs, AGI | Lex Fridman Podcast #490
Found this useful? Build your knowledge library
Get AI-powered summaries of any YouTube video, podcast, or article in seconds. Save them to your personal pods and access them anytime.
Try Summify free