How did Lori Gottlieb become a psychotherapist after starting in television and medical school?

Lori Gottlieb's path began in television, then shifted to medical school, inspired by her time in the ER. She left medical school to become a journalist, feeling it allowed her to explore human stories more deeply. After having a child, she pursued clinical psychology, realizing it combined her interests in storytelling and helping people change their narratives, leading to her hybrid career as a therapist and writer.

Why did Lori Gottlieb's patient Julie decide to work at Trader Joe's after a terminal cancer diagnosis?

Julie, facing a terminal cancer diagnosis, chose to work at Trader Joe's because she admired the cashiers' interactions and their ability to create tangible moments of connection and make someone's day better. This decision, initially seen as 'crazy' by others, was her way of living intentionally and finding joy and meaning in simple, direct human interaction during her remaining time.

What does Lori Gottlieb say about men expressing vulnerability in therapy?

Lori Gottlieb notes that many men, like her patient John, grow up feeling they need to be the 'rock' and hide their pain, fearing that vulnerability will cause everything to collapse. They often have immense difficulty sharing their inner lives, even with close companions, due to societal mixed messages and shame around crying or showing emotion, making their initial steps in therapy particularly courageous.

What is the meaning of 'ultracrepidarianism' in therapy?

Ultracrepidarianism refers to the habit of giving advice or opinions outside one's knowledge. Lori Gottlieb keeps a reminder of this in her office, emphasizing that her role as a therapist is not to tell patients what to do, but to help them find their own answers from within, as they are ultimately the best experts on their own lives.

Why is it important to talk about suicide with someone who is depressed?

It is crucial to openly discuss suicide with someone who is depressed because asking about it does not plant the idea in their head; instead, it can relieve their isolation and validate their feelings. The biggest risk factor for suicide is feeling completely alone, and allowing them to voice such painful thoughts can be a vital first step towards seeking help and reducing that isolation.

What is cherophobia, and how did it affect Lori Gottlieb's patient Rita?

Cherophobia is the fear of joy. Rita, a patient with a history of emotional deprivation, had this fear because her childhood experiences taught her that joy would always be followed by disappointment. This led her to unconsciously self-sabotage opportunities for happiness and connection in her adult life, even when a loving relationship with Myron presented itself.

How does Lori Gottlieb define the two types of suicide?

Lori Gottlieb describes two types of suicide: one stemming from depression where a person feels a previously good life has been ruined with nothing left to look forward to due to a specific loss or circumstance. The other type, exemplified by Rita, comes from a feeling that life has always been barren and there was never anything to look forward to.

Why do people often delay seeking therapy until they are in crisis?

People often delay seeking therapy because they minimize their emotional discomfort, seeing it as less urgent than physical ailments. They compare their pain to others, believing it's not 'bad enough,' similar to how one might ignore chest discomfort until a heart attack. This leads to unnecessary suffering and makes therapy more challenging, as it then becomes a crisis intervention rather than early prevention.

What is the 'insight is the booby prize' concept in therapy?

The concept 'insight is the booby prize of therapy' means that while understanding the root of one's problems is a valuable first step, it is insufficient without corresponding changes in behavior in the real world. Therapy aims for action and tangible improvement in a person's life, not just self-awareness, likening it to physical therapy where exercises must be done at home to see results.

Key Moments

#122 - Lori Gottlieb: Understanding pain, therapeutic breakthroughs, and keys to emotional health

Peter Attia MD

People & Blogs4 min read91 min video

Aug 3, 2020|5,368 views|127|6

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Lori Gottlieb discusses therapy, emotional health, and living a fulfilling life through her book and practice.

Key Insights

Therapy's core function is to help individuals reframe and edit their life narratives to foster growth and change.

Taking a non-linear path in life, including career changes, can be a courageous act driven by inner knowing.

Facing mortality, whether through diagnosis or life's uncertainty, can be a catalyst for living more authentically.

Self-punishment and shame are significant barriers to emotional healing, requiring self-forgiveness and compassion.

Authentic emotional connection and vulnerability are crucial for healing, often requiring a safe space to be truly seen.

Emotional health is as vital as physical health and seeking support early can prevent prolonged suffering and collateral damage.

A JOURNEY THROUGH STORYTELLING AND THERAPY

Lori Gottlieb, a psychotherapist and author, shares her unique path to her profession, which was non-linear and included work in entertainment and medical school. Her journey highlights a deep interest in human stories, shifting from documenting them as a journalist to helping people transform them as a therapist. This duality informs her work, emphasizing the power of narrative in shaping our lives and the therapeutic process of editing one's own story.

THE COURAGE TO PURSUE AN AUTHENTIC PATH

Gottlieb's transition from medical school to journalism and then to psychotherapy underscores the importance of heeding one's inner voice. She advocates for taking calculated risks to pursue fulfilling paths, even when they deviate from conventional expectations. The concept of 'sunk cost' is challenged, asserting that one should prioritize living the next 40 years meaningfully rather than being bound by past investments, especially when life's duration is uncertain.

LIFE'S INFLECTION POINTS AND NAVIGATING GRIEF

The discussion emphasizes how significant life events, like a cancer diagnosis, act as inflection points that compel individuals to re-evaluate their priorities. Gottlieb's experience with her patient Julie, who faced a terminal diagnosis, illustrates the profound impact of confronting mortality. Julie's decision to embrace a less conventional life path, finding joy in simple acts of connection, serves as a powerful lesson on living fully, regardless of the time remaining.

UNRAVELING SHAME AND THE PATH TO SELF-FORGIVENESS

The stories of John and Rita highlight the destructive cycle of shame and self-punishment. John's abrasive exterior masks deep-seated pain, while Rita grapples with the consequences of past mistakes. Gottlieb explains that transformation often involves breaking down defenses to reveal vulnerability, fostering self-compassion, and ultimately forgiving oneself. This process is essential for moving beyond past regrets and building a more authentic future.

THE POWER OF THERAPEUTIC RELATIONSHIP AND BREAKTHROUGHS

Gottlieb stresses that the therapeutic relationship is the most critical factor in healing, more so than training or modality. Creating a safe, non-judgmental space allows patients to explore their deepest issues. Breakthroughs emerge not from quick fixes, but from consistent effort and connection, often through small, incremental steps. The therapist acts as a guide, helping patients access their inner wisdom rather than providing direct answers.

EMOTIONAL HEALTH AS A FOUNDATION FOR LIFE

The conversation strongly advocates for prioritizing emotional health, comparing its neglect to ignoring physical discomfort until a crisis occurs. Unlike tangible physical ailments with clear outcomes, emotional struggles often involve subtle discomfort that people minimize. Early intervention is crucial to prevent prolonged suffering and reduce collateral damage to oneself and others. Therapy is framed as an investment in overall well-being, essential for a fulfilling life.

CHALLENGING MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT THERAPY

Gottlieb dispels common myths about therapy, emphasizing that it's not solely focused on childhood trauma or endless talk sessions. Modern therapy is present-focused, aiming to equip individuals with tools for a better future. Insight alone is insufficient; real change requires translating insights into actionable steps and maintaining new behaviors long-term, much like adhering to a physical therapy regimen.

RITA'S JOURNEY: FEAR OF JOY AND SABOTAGE

Rita's story illustrates the struggle with cherophobia, a fear of joy, stemming from past experiences of having joy taken away. Despite opportunities for connection and a potential relationship with Myron, she actively sabotages these possibilities due to deep-seated shame and self-doubt. Her powerful letter to Myron reveals the raw self-condemnation she experiences, highlighting the profound internal conflict she faces in allowing happiness into her life.

THE IMPORTANCE OF SELF-FORGIVENESS AND ACCEPTANCE

A central theme is the difficulty individuals face in forgiving themselves for past mistakes, whether they be John's self-destructive behaviors or Rita's parenting failures. Gottlieb posits that true healing requires accepting one's humanity, including imperfections, and moving beyond self-imposed punishment. The goal is to become one's own compassionate parent, offering the forgiveness and understanding that may be lacking from others.

MAINTAINING CHANGE AND THE 'GRADUAL THEN SUDDEN' REALITY

The process of change is often gradual, with breakthroughs appearing sudden, akin to a stonemason's work. Maintaining these changes is the most challenging phase, involving navigating setbacks without abandoning the progress made. This requires persistence and self-compassion, recognizing that relapses are part of the journey. The ultimate aim of therapy is to equip individuals with the resilience to sustain positive changes and improve their overall quality of life.

Mentioned in This Episode

●Software & Apps

●Companies

●Organizations

●Books

●Concepts

●People Referenced

Common Questions

Lori Gottlieb's book 'Maybe You Should Talk to Someone' explores the human condition through the interwoven stories of four seemingly different patients and Gottlieb’s own therapeutic journey with her therapist. It delves into universal struggles and how connection with others fosters growth, emphasizing that despite superficial differences, we share fundamental human experiences.

Topics

Mental Health & Psychology Mindset & Self-Improvement Relationships & Communication Relationship Dynamics Personal Growth Grief And Loss Career Transitions Emotional Health Shame And Forgiveness

Mentioned in this video

Companies

NBC

Network television company where Lori Gottlieb worked earlier in her career.

Trader Joe's

A grocery store chain where Lori Gottlieb's patient Julie chose to work after her terminal diagnosis, due to its positive and tangible customer interactions.

iHeartRadio

A platform where the 'Dear Therapists' podcast can be found.

Books

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone

Lori Gottlieb's New York Times best-selling book that intertwines her own therapeutic journey with stories of four diverse patients, exploring the human condition and the process of change.

Concepts

Managed Care

A new medical model emerging during Lori Gottlieb's time in medical school, which she felt was not conducive to long-term patient relationships, influencing her decision to leave.

Ultracrepidarianism

A term meaning the habit of giving advice or opinions outside of one's knowledge or competence, which Lori Gottlieb keeps taped in her office as a reminder.

How Humans Change

A chapter in Lori Gottlieb's book that outlines the steps humans go through for lasting change, emphasizing preparation and maintenance.

Cherophobia

The fear of joy, described as a condition common in individuals who grew up in situations where their joy was consistently taken away, like Rita's experience with her distant mother.

Media

Dear Therapists

Lori Gottlieb's new podcast, co-hosted with Guy Winch, which offers listeners intimate sessions guiding patients through daily life challenges.

A successful medical drama series that premiered during Lori Gottlieb's time at NBC, and inspired her interest in emergency room medicine.

TED Talk

Lori Gottlieb mentions doing a TED Talk about how changing our stories can help us change our lives, and Peter mentions that she integrates the 'open bars' metaphor into her talk.

Friends

A successful sitcom that premiered during Lori Gottlieb's time at NBC, which she saw as exploring deep psychological truths.

People

Joseph Campbell

An American mythologist, writer, and lecturer, whose book with the 'pursue your own bliss' line was given to Peter Attia by Peter Pronovost.

Katie Couric

A journalist and producer who is producing Lori Gottlieb's 'Dear Therapists' podcast.

Guy Winch

Lori Gottlieb's co-host on the 'Dear Therapists' podcast, also known for his TED Talks.

Peter Pronovost

An attending physician at Johns Hopkins who encouraged Peter Attia to pursue his own bliss, citing Joseph Campbell's work.

Lori Gottlieb

A psychotherapist, author of 'Maybe You Should Talk to Someone', and writer of 'Dear Therapist' column for The Atlantic. She is also the co-host of the podcast 'Dear Therapists'.

Organizations

The Atlantic

A prominent American magazine where Lori Gottlieb writes her weekly column, 'Dear Therapist'.

Stanford University School of Medicine

The medical school Lori Gottlieb attended before deciding to pursue a career in journalism and then psychotherapy.

The New York Times Magazine

Lori Gottlieb wrote a piece for this magazine titled 'What brand is your therapist?' discussing how therapists market themselves.

Software & Apps

Apple Podcasts

A platform where the 'Dear Therapists' podcast can be found.

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