Key Moments
The Low-Trust Society: A Conversation with David Brooks (Episode #334)
Sam HarrisKey Moments
David Brooks and Sam Harris discuss the erosion of social trust in America, the rise of populism, and the future of democracy.
Key Insights
Social trust in American institutions and individuals has significantly eroded, leading to increased polarization and populism.
The current political landscape is characterized by a 'politics of recognition' rather than distribution, fueling identity-based grievances.
The Republican Party's shift towards embracing figures like Trump is partly explained by a meritocratic elite's perceived disconnect and a reaction against perceived cultural power.
Aggressive amoralism and a focus on power over cooperation are key characteristics of the worldview driving some political movements, contrasting with liberal ideals.
Despite low social trust, the American economy has shown remarkable strength and innovation, particularly in recent years.
President Biden, despite concerns about his age, is seen as having pursued beneficial policies by addressing economic inequality and investing in infrastructure.
THE COLLAPSE OF SOCIAL TRUST AND ITS CONSEQUENCES
David Brooks and Sam Harris open their conversation by revisiting Brooks' 2020 essay, 'America is Having a Moral Convulsion,' which highlighted a severe decline in social trust. Brooks describes a society where trust in institutions and individuals has plummeted, leading to psychological defenses, increased populism, and a general sense of betrayal. This distrust is not merely a political phenomenon but has manifested in a societal crisis of depression, suicide, and a breakdown in personal relationships, with fewer people reporting close friendships or stable family connections.
ECONOMIC RESILIENCE AMID SOCIAL FRAGMENTATION
Surprisingly, despite the evident crisis in social trust, the American economy has demonstrated significant resilience and growth. Brooks notes that while low-trust societies are often economically poor, the US has heavily outperformed Europe in GDP per capita, investment, and innovation. Recent years have seen a resurgence in manufacturing and investment in the American heartland, particularly the Midwest, with major tech companies making substantial investments. This economic vitality offers a counterpoint to the otherwise bleak social and political outlook.
THE RISE OF 'RECOGNITION POLITICS' AND IDENTITY GRIEVANCES
The conversation delves into the nature of contemporary politics, which Brooks characterizes as a 'politics of recognition' rather than a traditional 'politics of distribution.' In this framework, political leaders are expected to humiliate opponents and affirm supporters, focusing on identity and belonging. This approach, amplified by social media, leads individuals to seek moral landscapes, community, and action through politics, rather than finding them in everyday life, resulting in an over-politicization of society and a deficit in genuine morality and community building.
THE RECONFIGURED REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE MERITOCRATIC REVOLT
Brooks attempts to explain the dramatic shift within the Republican Party, particularly its embrace of Donald Trump. He posits that a major factor is the rise of a cognitive meritocratic class since the mid-20th century, which has consolidated cultural and economic power. This elite, pleasing to teachers and academics, largely controls media, universities, and Hollywood. Many outside this group feel disenfranchised and resentful of this perceived elite control. Trump is seen by some as a vehicle to challenge this established order, leading to a phenomenon where 'the ends justify the means,' even among religious groups.
AMORALISM AND THE CHALLENGE TO THE LIBERAL WORLD ORDER
The discussion extends to the international arena, specifically the war in Ukraine, highlighting a divergence in Republican views. Brooks identifies an 'aggressive amoralism' as a key characteristic of the Trumpian worldview, which rejects the liberal notion of cooperative arrangements and moral norms. This perspective prioritizes raw power, echoing ancient philosophies where 'the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.' This amoral stance represents a fundamental challenge to the liberal international order, which relies on cooperation and mutual respect, and the moral force that underpins it.
THE COMPLEXITY OF TRUMP SUPPORT AND BIDEN'S PRESIDENCY
Navigating conversations with Trump supporters is described as challenging, often due to self-enclosed belief systems. Brooks notes that generalizations about these supporters are increasingly difficult, with a core group resembling 'cult members' and others who are more 'Trump-friendly' or 'adjacent,' often driven by a fear of a Biden presidency. Despite his age, President Biden is viewed more positively by Brooks than his political profile might suggest; he is credited with identifying and addressing economic inequality, investing in key industries, and picking the right fights, particularly in standing against authoritarianism.
THE ENDURING NEED FOR MORALITY AND HUMILITY
The conversation underscores the difficulty in discussing aspirational language and moral imperatives in contemporary politics, often met with cynicism. Brooks emphasizes that the liberal Enlightenment project, though recent in historical terms, is built on a moral vision of human dignity and the ideals of democracy, which involve curiosity and respect for differing viewpoints. He highlights Jonathan Haidt's observation that moral communities are fragile and easily destroyed, stressing the importance of humility—an awareness of our limitations and moral flaws—as a primary virtue necessary for cooperation and building trust in society.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●Books
●People Referenced
Common Questions
David Brooks describes his politics as "weirdly unchanged," rooted in Edmund Burke's epistemological modesty and Alexander Hamilton's belief in energetic government for societal success. He identifies as being on the "rightward edge of the Democrats."
Topics
Mentioned in this video
A former conservative political magazine where David Brooks worked, contributing to his career trajectory.
Mentioned as a company making significant multi-billion dollar investments in the American Midwest, indicating economic revitalization.
Mentioned as a company making significant multi-billion dollar investments in the American Midwest, signaling economic growth.
Mentioned as a company making significant multi-billion dollar investments in the American Midwest, contributing to economic revitalization.
A renowned theologian and philosopher, cited by Brooks as an example of a writer from the 1955-1965 era who tackled significant subjects.
A former colleague of Brooks at The Weekly Standard, whose shift towards Trumpism is seen as driven by excitement, a desire for relevance, and cynicism.
Cited for his strength derived from the belief in a universal moral order, specifically that segregation and slavery are inherently wrong.
The current US President, discussed regarding his age as a liability, but also praised for picking the right fights (authoritarianism vs. democracy) and his administration's efforts to address economic inequality.
A conservative commentator who, along with others, has made common cause with Sam Harris in opposing Trump and Trumpism.
Credited with saving Biden from the worst effects of his stimulative spending by cutting back on stimulus, which helped control inflation.
A political philosopher who is one of David Brooks' two heroes, embodying a belief in epistemological modesty and incremental change.
Mentioned in the context of Republican skepticism towards supporting Ukraine, with some Republicans arguing the US provoked his invasion.
A political theorist whose work Brooks admires from the non-fiction period of 1955-1965, focusing on significant and broad themes.
Mentioned as someone whose support for Trump is primarily driven by a desire to remain relevant.
President of Ukraine, whose efforts are strongly supported by most Republicans and Republicans in Congress, according to Brooks.
Economist whom David Brooks debated on national television at age 21, a moment Brooks humorously recalls as being "slaughtered."
A sociologist whose work Brooks admires from the period of 1955-1965, representing a style of writing that bridges journalism and academia.
A philosopher from whom Brooks takes the quote about being happy to be at the "rightward edge of the leftward tendency," reflecting his political positioning.
Mentioned in the context of the 2024 Republican primaries, noting his past polling numbers against Trump and the shift in Republican loyalty towards the party over the individual candidate.
Leader mentioned as someone who, like Putin, believes in a worldview centered on power rather than cooperation and norms.
A literary critic and historian whose work Brooks sees as exemplary of a valuable form of non-fiction writing between 1955-1965.
A conservative commentator mentioned by Sam Harris as someone who, like Brooks, recognized the dangers of Trump early on.
His laptop is discussed, with Brooks suggesting the influence peddling allegations are more serious than initially thought, though the success of that peddling is an open question.
A theologian and writer whose work Brooks admires from the period of 1955-1965, representing a thoughtful approach to big subjects.
A conservative commentator noted for his opposition to Trump, aligning with Sam Harris and David Brooks on this issue.
Cited as an example of an educated elite who adopts Trumpist rhetoric, which Brooks attributes to a cynical calculation of current political trends.
Founder of the National Review, who Brooks recalls offering him a job after spotting him, though Brooks missed the opportunity by debating Milton Friedman.
An urban theorist and activist whose work Brooks admires from the period of 1955-1965, characterized by non-specialized, big-picture writing.
One of David Brooks' two heroes, representing an immigrant mentality and the idea that government should be energetic in supporting people's success.
His book "Coming Apart" is mentioned as reflecting similar themes to Brooks' analysis of economic inequality and the segregation of societal rewards.
Mentioned as a figure at MSNBC whose critiques of Trump are naturally countered by the Wall Street Journal editorial page, illustrating a binary political dynamic.
Social psychologist whose quote, "moral communities are very hard to build and very easy to destroy," is used by Brooks to illustrate the fragility of societal cohesion.
A theologian whose book, "The Nature and Destiny of Man," Brooks cites as an example of the kind of substantial non-fiction writing he admires from the mid-20th century.
The retrieval of documents from Mar-a-Lago by the FBI is discussed as a moment that significantly boosted Donald Trump's support among Republicans.
David Brooks is a columnist for The New York Times, a position he describes humorously as being a "conservative columnist" in a liberal-leaning institution.
Discussed in relation to Republican arguments that US/NATO expansion provoked Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
An essay by David Brooks published in The Atlantic in 2020 that argued for a breakdown of social trust and institutions in America. Brooks revisits its themes three years later.
A children's book David Brooks read at age seven that inspired him to become a writer.
Brooks worked on the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal, contributing to his early career in conservative commentary.
Mentioned as an example of a media outlet that fosters a sense of community among like-minded individuals, contributing to the politics of recognition and tribalism.
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