Key Moments

E118: AI FOMO frenzy, macro update, Fox vs Dominion, US vs China & more with Brad Gerstner

All-In PodcastAll-In Podcast
People & Blogs4 min read117 min video
Mar 3, 2023|442,372 views|6,546|962
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TL;DR

AI bubble frenzy, macro shifts, legal battles, and geopolitical tensions dominate this All-In Podcast.

Key Insights

1

The AI sector is experiencing a "FOMO frenzy" with massive investment, but caution is advised due to potential overvaluation and lack of clear value capture.

2

Inflation remains sticky, with concerns about higher interest rates for longer, impacting corporate earnings and challenging private market valuations.

3

The Fox News-Dominion lawsuit highlights issues of media responsibility and the legal standard for defamation, with calls to reform libel laws.

4

Geopolitical tensions are rising, particularly between the US and China, influencing policy on apps like TikTok and driving a global decoupling trend.

5

A significant shift is occurring in Silicon Valley with a renewed focus on operational efficiency, cost-cutting, and increased accountability for stock-based compensation.

6

While tech valuations and funding face a reckoning, new investment rounds are becoming more rational, emphasizing milestone-based funding and disciplined spending.

THE AI INVESTMENT FRENZY AND MARKET SHIFT

The podcast opens with a discussion on the current 'FOMO frenzy' surrounding Artificial Intelligence, particularly generative AI startups. With over $11 billion collectively raised by hundreds of AI startups, the panel likens the current landscape to the early internet days. While acknowledging AI as a genuine platform shift, experts like Doug Leone and Brad Gerstner caution against indiscriminate investment, emphasizing the need for rational decision-making and avoiding purely chasing trends. There's uncertainty about which foundational models will capture value, with possibilities of it accruing to giants like Microsoft and Google, similar to how the mobile OS market consolidated.

MACROECONOMIC HEADWINDS AND INFLATION CONCERNS

The macro update reveals persistent inflation, with indications that interest rates may remain higher for longer than initially anticipated. Recent data points show hotter-than-expected inflation prints, contradicting earlier hopes that the problem was largely solved. The market is recalibrating, suggesting the Federal Reserve might need to implement more rate hikes or maintain high rates. This economic climate is leading to weaker corporate earnings expectations and putting pressure on private markets, where the risk-free rate is now a significant competitor to venture capital returns.

THE CHALLENGE OF PRIVATE MARKET VALUATIONS AND INVESTING

With risk-free rates climbing significantly, limited partners (LPs) are questioning the value proposition of venture capital, demanding higher returns to justify the investment. This pressure is leading to a 'medicine being taken' in the private markets, with down rounds, restructurings, and VCs exiting boards of struggling companies like Citizen. Founders are urged to prioritize employees by resetting valuations and refreshing equity pools. Instacart's internal valuation drop and its pivot to advertising highlight the new realities of private companies preparing for public markets amid a funding slowdown.

CORPORATE EFFICIENCY AND THE 'UNLEASHING THE ELON' TREND

A notable shift is occurring in Silicon Valley towards greater operational efficiency and cost-cutting, influenced by figures like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. Companies like Salesforce and Meta are re-evaluating every dollar of investment, prioritizing profitability and delayering their organizations. This trend is driven by activist investors and a realization that the era of easy hiring and expansive growth is over. The discussion also touches on the immense impact of stock-based compensation, which has contributed to company bloat and has historically been adjusted out of earnings, leading to calls for greater transparency and accountability.

MEDIA RESPONSIBILITY AND LEGAL CHALLENGES: FOX NEWS AND TIKTOK

The Fox News-Dominion lawsuit discussion delves into media accountability, especially concerning the spread of election misinformation. Rupert Murdoch's testimony revealed knowledge of false claims on air, raising questions about defamation laws and "actual malice." There's a sentiment that libel laws may need reform to hold media outlets more accountable. Separately, the debate around banning TikTok intensifies, framed as part of the broader US-China geopolitical competition. While some advocate for a ban based on national security concerns, others suggest a focus on reciprocity and greater transparency regarding data usage.

GEOPOLITICAL REALIGNMENTS AND THE US-CHINA DYNAMIC

The podcast highlights the intensifying geopolitical competition between the US and China, dubbed 'Great Power Competition' (GPC). This rivalry is reshaping global trade and policy, with discussions on decoupling, onshoring critical infrastructure (like semiconductors via the CHIPS Act), and potential trade imbalances. The Ukraine conflict is viewed by some as a distraction from this primary US-China focus. The conversation also touches upon China's peace proposal for Ukraine, seen by some as a strategic move to gain moral high ground, while others believe the US is pushing adversaries like Russia and China closer together through its foreign policy approach.

THE FUTURE OF COMPENSATION AND UNIVERSITY ADMISSIONS

The discussion on stock-based compensation criticizes its historical lack of accountability, arguing it fueled company bloat and masked true expenses. The panel suggests a shift towards metrics like free cash flow per share as a benchmark for executive compensation. Additionally, the concept of legacy admissions in universities like Harvard is questioned. The statistic that 43% of white students at Harvard benefited from legacy, athletic, or donor status prompts a debate about fairness and whether such preferential treatment aligns with meritocratic ideals.

Cash Flow vs Earnings for S&P 500 Firms (2020-2024)

Data extracted from this episode

MetricDescriptionTrend (2020-2024)
Net IncomeAdjusted for depreciation and amortization (white line)Diverging significantly from cash flows
Cash Flows from OperationsActual money in the bank account (blue line)Much lower than reported net income, indicating accounting tricks

Stock-Based Compensation & Dilution Comparison (Last 15 Years)

Data extracted from this episode

CompanyAnnual DilutionSBC as % of Revenue (Coinbase)
Booking.com~5%
Salesforce~25%
Expedia Group~25%
Apple50 basis points (gold standard)
Visa50 basis points (gold standard)
Mastercard50 basis points (gold standard)
Coinbase70%

Common Questions

There's a massive AI FOMO frenzy with 500 generative AI startups raising over $11 billion. Investors are under pressure to deploy capital, but many of these startups may not succeed, leading to a 'Precambrian explosion' of innovation followed by consolidation.

Topics

Mentioned in this video

People
Bill Maher

Mentioned for his press tour where he articulated a distinction between liberalism and wokism, suggesting wokism is casting out liberals from the Democratic party.

Kevin Mayer

CEO of ByteDance (TikTok's parent company).

Laura Ingraham

A Fox News host, categorized as a 'skeptic' of the Sidney Powell election theory by David Sacks.

Jake Tapper

Mentioned as the interviewer with whom Bill Maher discussed liberalism versus wokism on his press tour.

Bill Gurley

A prominent venture capitalist, cited for his perspective that focusing too much on macro trends can lead investors in the 'wrong direction' due to market unpredictability.

Elon Musk

His actions at Twitter are celebrated as having 'lit a fuse in Silicon Valley,' inspiring other CEOs to prioritize efficiency and make tough decisions, though Chemath questions the applicability of his radical cuts to public companies.

Sean Hannity

A Fox News host, criticized for being a 'Trump Loyalist' who endorsed Sidney Powell's claims despite private text messages indicating he didn't believe them, coming across as the 'worst' in the Dominion lawsuit context.

Antony Blinken

US Secretary of State, mentioned implicitly by David Sacks for the US throwing 'cold water' on peace efforts in Istanbul.

Draymond Green

The basketball player, whose video clip about Black History Month is played, where he advocates for teaching Black history year-round instead of confining it to the shortest month.

Charlie Munger

Cited for his quote 'show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome' in relation to venture capital investment pressures and later for his skepticism regarding compensation consultants.

Rudy Giuliani

A lawyer associated with Trump, whose 'wacko' claims about Dominion voting machines rigging the election were platformed by Fox News.

Clarence Thomas

Justice of the Supreme Court, mentioned for indicating support for overturning New York Times v. Sullivan, which David Sacks supports.

Vladimir Putin

The President of Russia, the target of Western-backed 'regime change' ambitions and described as a 'murdering dictator authoritarian' by Jason Calacanis, while David Sacks argues Western actions provoked his invasion of Ukraine.

Tucker Carlson

A Fox News host, categorized as a 'skeptic' of the Sidney Powell theory by David Sacks, who notes Tucker's 20-minute interview where he grilled Powell for evidence, effectively dismantling her claims.

Xi Jinping

Mentioned for his recent speech about peace with Russia, viewed as a clever diplomatic maneuver to grab the moral high ground amidst global dynamics.

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan

President of Turkey, mentioned for presiding over the Istanbul peace process between Russia and Ukraine.

Victoria Nuland

US diplomat mentioned for her alleged role in 'fermenting coups' through NGOs in Ukraine in 2014, cited as a provocative action.

Pras Michel

Co-founder of The Fugees, whose involvement in the 1MDB scandal is described as a 'crazy article' in Bloomberg Businessweek, involving shadowy dealings with Chinese security officials seeking an introduction to Trump.

Doug Leone

A prominent investor from Sequoia, quoted on the AI platform shift, warning against FOMO but acknowledging the transformative potential of AI while advising rational investment.

Rupert Murdoch

Deposed in the Dominion lawsuit, he admitted that Fox News should have been stronger in denouncing false election claims, but strategically avoided admitting 'actual malice' to defend against defamation charges.

Hugo Chavez

The former Venezuelan president, falsely implicated in conspiracy theories about Dominion voting machines rigging the election.

Ron DeSantis

His article in The Wall Street Journal is discussed, where he argued against 'wokism' in corporations and for businesses to be subject to majority shareholder concerns, appealing to the Republican base.

Donald Trump

His claims of a stolen election and the 'insane people he put around himself' spreading false claims are referenced in the context of the Fox News / Dominion lawsuit.

Sidney Powell

A lawyer associated with Trump, whose 'wacko' and 'wild conspiracy theory' claims about Dominion voting machines rigging the election were platformed by Fox News.

Naftali Bennett

Former Israeli Prime Minister, mentioned for attempting to negotiate a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine in March 2022, which he claimed was rejected by the US and the West.

Companies
Salesforce

The company's turnaround is discussed after significant executive turnover, with shares up due to increased focus on profitability, cost scrutiny, and a large share buyback program, inspired by Elon Musk's efficiency drive at Twitter.

Twitter

Elon Musk's radical restructuring of the company, including significant headcount reduction, is discussed as a catalyst for other CEOs to consider efficiency, despite a 70% drop in revenue under his ownership.

OpenAI

The company behind ChatGPT, whose 10 billion dollar investment from Microsoft is noted, and whose strategy of cutting API costs is highlighted as a way to dominate the developer platform for AI.

Google

Mentioned as a large company that could capture significant value in the AI space (like iOS and Android) and as a company that has seen explosive employee growth.

AMD

Identified as a 'pick and shovel provider' in the AI Gold Rush, expected to continue benefiting from the need for custom silicon in AI.

Robinhood

Mentioned by Jason Calacanis for offering 5.2% interest on his account, though Brad questions if it includes junk bonds, highlighting varying rates in the market.

Amazon

Compared to Instacart and Uber for building an ad business inside its platform to drive revenue growth.

Meta Platforms

Mentioned for its efficiency drive under Zuckerberg, cutting 10% of its workforce, which led to faster product cycles and happier employees, serving as a model for other tech companies.

TikTok

The popular social media app, central to a heated debate about a potential ban or forced sale in the US due to national security concerns about its Chinese ownership, with the White House already removing it from federal devices.

Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts

The luxury hotel chain mentioned in the context of Pras Michel's cloak-and-dagger meeting with a Chinese security official, as detailed in the Bloomberg Businessweek article.

Credit Suisse

Mentioned as a bank offering 6.5% interest for a three-month T-bill, illustrating the high risk-free rate that puts pressure on venture investors to deploy capital.

Mastercard

Mentioned as an example of a 'gold standard' public company with low annual dilution, indicating effective management of stock-based compensation.

Wirecard AG

A German company, subject of a New Yorker article detailing the largest fraud in German history, highly recommended for reading.

Coinbase

Cited as an extreme example of high Stock-Based Compensation (SBC), reporting SBC as 70% of its revenue, highlighting potential issues with this accounting practice.

Visa

Mentioned as an example of a 'gold standard' public company with low annual dilution, indicating effective management of stock-based compensation.

Dominion Voting Systems

The company suing Fox News for 1.6 billion in damages over false allegations of election fraud spread on air.

Brazil

Mentioned as a potential partner for the United States to develop zero-cost energy and manufacturing capabilities as part of decoupling from China.

Microsoft

Its 10 billion dollar investment in OpenAI is noted, and its Azure platform is mentioned as hosting the ChatGPT API, implying its potential to accrete value in the AI space.

Uber

Compared to Instacart and Amazon for building an ad business inside its platform to drive revenue growth.

Apple

Referenced as a 'gold standard' for public companies with a low annual dilution rate of 50 basis points, demonstrating efficient use of stock-based compensation.

ByteDance

The parent company of TikTok, referenced for its significant revenue and profits, and the debate around whether its US operations should be banned or spun off due to national security concerns.

Disney

Referenced in the context of Ron DeSantis revoking its special administrative status, with DeSantis arguing that Disney should focus on business and not 'woke' agendas.

Booking.com

Praised for its transparency in reporting earnings, stating that every metric includes stock-based compensation, resulting in much lower shareholder dilution compared to other tech companies.

NVIDIA

Identified as a 'pick and shovel provider' in the AI Gold Rush, having been paid for years and expected to continue benefiting from the need for custom silicon in AI.

Instacart

Featured for its Q4 growth ahead of going public, despite cutting its internal valuation by 75%, attributed to turning on advertising on its app, similar to Uber and Amazon.

Organizations
United States House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party

A committee focused on China that held its first meeting, indicating a broader US focus on 'great power competition' with China.

NATO

Its expansion towards Russia's border is cited by David Sacks as a major cause of the Ukraine war, seen as provocative by Russia, even by its liberal elements.

White House

Issued a directive giving government agencies 30 days to remove TikTok from all federal devices, citing security concerns.

El Salvador

Mentioned as a potential partner for the United States to develop zero-cost energy and manufacturing capabilities as part of decoupling from China.

Sequoia Capital

A leading venture capital firm, specifically mentioned through Doug Leone's advice on AI investments and later in the context of it leaving the board of 'Citizen' due to a cram-down round.

Fox News

The subject of a 1.6 billion dollar defamation lawsuit by Dominion Voting Systems for knowingly broadcasting false claims of election fraud, despite internal awareness of their untruthfulness.

Mexico

Mentioned as a potential partner for the United States to develop zero-cost energy and manufacturing capabilities as part of decoupling from China.

The New Yorker

A publication mentioned for an article about the Wirecard AG fraud, which is highly recommended for reading.

MSNBC

Mentioned by David Sacks as a media outlet that would also face defamation lawsuits if New York Times v. Sullivan were overturned, implying they spread 'nonsense'.

Supreme Court of the United States

Mentioned for denying certiorari to Trump's election claims, indicating the legal avenues for challenging the election had been exhausted, which David Sacks said should have ended the denial claims.

CNN

Mentioned by David Sacks as a media outlet that would also face defamation lawsuits if New York Times v. Sullivan were overturned, implying they spread 'nonsense'.

European Union

Mentioned as an entity that has already removed TikTok from federal devices, preceding the US White House directive.

The Fugees

The musical group co-founded by Pras Michel, who is currently embroiled in the 1MDB scandal.

Locations
India

Mentioned as a potential collaborator with China, the US, and other nations to force a resolution to the Ukraine war.

Japan

Discussed as an affordable and welcoming country with amazing people and food, especially for families, noting its negative birth rate and culinary offerings like fluffy pancakes.

Central America

Mentioned as a region the US will increasingly rely on for supply chains due to decoupling from China, leading to more jobs and economic prosperity there.

South America

Mentioned as a region the US will increasingly rely on for supply chains due to decoupling from China, leading to more jobs and economic prosperity there.

Honduras

Mentioned as a potential partner for the United States to develop zero-cost energy and manufacturing capabilities as part of decoupling from China.

Iran

Grouped with China and Russia as 'authoritarian' regimes and discussed for its collaboration on nuclear technology with Pakistan and China.

Taiwan

Mentioned as a country that has already removed TikTok from federal devices and later in the context of the US potentially not needing to defend it if its semiconductor capabilities are near-shored.

China

Discussed extensively as the central global competitor and adversary of the US, with a focus on decoupling, trade, and its geopolitical maneuvers regarding AI, solar wafers, and the Ukraine war.

Pakistan

Mentioned as a country that collaborated with Iran and China on nuclear technology.

Russia

Its role in the Ukraine war is debated, with discussions around US strategy, the impact of sanctions, and the historical context of NATO expansion as a provocative action.

Canada

Mentioned as a country that has already removed TikTok from federal devices, preceding the US White House directive.

Ukraine

The ongoing war is discussed, with views on China's diplomatic role, US foreign policy, and the impact of Western intervention on its destruction and potential loss.

Turkey

Mentioned for hosting peace negotiations in Istanbul between Russia and Ukraine, which produced the 'Istanbul Communique,' but was ultimately derailed by the US.

Argentina

Mentioned as a potential partner for the United States to develop zero-cost energy and manufacturing capabilities as part of decoupling from China.

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