Co-Founder of Blogger, Twitter, Medium, and Mozi — The Art of Pivoting, Strategic Quitting, and More
Tim FerrissKey Moments
Ev Williams discusses founding Blogger, Twitter, Medium, Mozi, and the art of strategic quitting.
Key Insights
Greatness and innovation are often unplanned; attempting to meticulously plot them can hinder possibilities.
The transition from 'social' meaning real-life interaction to an internet-centric concept has evolved significantly.
Strategic quitting, understanding sunk cost and opportunity cost, is as vital as perseverance.
Building products for oneself can be more effective than trying to build for others without personal connection.
Core skills like reading, writing, creative ideation, and social-emotional learning remain crucial amidst AI advancements.
Investing in climate solutions and psychedelics offers future growth potential, but with caveats.
Prioritizing personal well-being through exercise, meditation, and emotional processing is key to deep self-improvement.
THE UNPLANNED NATURE OF INNOVATION
Ev Williams introduces the concept that significant achievements, like inventing new technologies or creating art, cannot be strictly planned. Unlike formulaic tasks such as running a marathon, groundbreaking innovations emerge organically. An overemphasis on rigid planning can stifle creativity and close off unforeseen opportunities, suggesting that embracing ambiguity is crucial for pioneering endeavors. This contrasts with traditional advice to set goals and rigidly follow a plan, highlighting that true innovation often arises from exploration rather than strict adherence to a pre-defined path.
THE EVOLUTION OF 'SOCIAL'
The conversation delves into how the definition of 'social' has transformed over time. Originally, it implied in-person interactions and building genuine connections. With the rise of platforms like Facebook and Twitter, 'social' became synonymous with online activity, often focusing on information and ideas rather than deep personal relationships. Williams admits his early focus was on information dissemination, a reflection of his upbringing in a less socially connected environment, which he has since recognized as an area where he personally underinvested.
MOZI: RECONNECTING IN PERSON
In response to the evolving digital landscape and his personal reflection on underinvesting in relationships, Williams co-founded Mozi. This app aims to facilitate real-world connections by helping users discover which friends are nearby and available to meet. Mozi is designed as a truly social app, prioritizing in-person interactions and genuine relationship building over performative online activity. It serves as a direct counterpoint to the often superficial nature of current social media, seeking to leverage technology to enhance, rather than replace, human connection.
THE ART OF STRATEGIC QUITTING
Williams shares his experience with Odeo, a podcasting company that became obsolete almost overnight with Apple's launch of podcasts on iTunes. Despite initial funding and effort, he recognized the futility of their current path. This led to a pivotal decision to 'strategically quit,' a concept he contrasts with the popular narrative of perseverance. He argues that understanding sunk costs and opportunity costs is essential, and sometimes pivoting or stopping a venture is the more rational and ultimately beneficial choice for future innovation.
FROM ODEO TO TWITTER: AN UNEXPECTED BIRTH
The shutdown of Odeo, rather than being an end, became a catalyst. Investors, believing in the team, encouraged them to explore new ideas. Through an internal hackathon, a concept focused on broadcasting brief messages, initially via audio and then text, emerged. This evolved into Twitter, with key elements like RSS informing the 'following' model. The realization of its potential wasn't immediate, but an inflection point occurred at a South by Southwest conference, where the live display of tweets captivated early adopters from the blogging community.
THE POWER OF INTERNAL MOTIVATION AND SELF-BUILDING
A consistent theme is Williams's tendency to build products he personally needs or finds interesting, citing his involvement with Blogger and his personal connection to the vision behind it. This contrasts with projects like Odeo, where his personal engagement waned, influencing the decision to cease operations. He emphasizes that while some can build for others, his own success stems from creating solutions he desires for himself, a principle he applies to the ongoing development of Mozi.
RE-EVALUATING CAREER AND PERSONAL GROWTH
Williams discusses stepping down from Medium, a company he led for an extended period. He framed this as a form of 'quitting' driven by ego and external expectations rather than a lack of the company's viability. This decision was informed by Andy Duke's book 'Quit,' which highlights the importance of recognizing opportunity costs. He believes that clearing one's attention from a struggling venture is essential for uncovering new possibilities and preventing stagnation, underscoring the value of knowing when to disengage.
FUNDAMENTAL SKILLS FOR AN AI-DRIVEN FUTURE
Addressing the rise of AI, Williams advises focusing on uniquely human skills. He stresses the enduring importance of reading and writing, not just for communication but as tools for thinking and generating ideas. Creative problem-solving and social-emotional learning (SEL) are also highlighted as critical competencies that AI is less likely to replicate. He advocates for developing the ability to connect with others and understand emotions, skills that are fundamental to personal and professional success.
INVESTMENT HORIZONS: CLIMATE AND PSYCHEDELICS
When asked about investment areas, Williams points to climate solutions as a long-term, critical focus, despite current market volatility. He also mentions psychedelics as a space with significant therapeutic potential, though he expresses caution about their integration into existing healthcare systems and the risk of patent-driven business models. His investment philosophy, through Obvious Ventures, centers on addressing major global problems with innovative solutions.
THE BILLBOARD MESSAGE: FEEL YOUR FEELINGS
If forced to leave a message on a billboard, Williams contemplates messages related to healing and interconnectedness. He lands on 'Feel Your Feelings' as a potentially actionable truth that could significantly improve individual well-being and, by extension, societal health. He shares his personal journey from viewing feelings as a nuisance to recognizing their importance, aided by therapy, psychedelics, meditation, and self-reflection, suggesting that emotional processing is key to personal growth and understanding.
THE HOFFMAN PROCESS AND PERSONAL TRANSFORMATION
Williams highly recommends the Hoffman Process, a week-long retreat designed for profound personal development, comparing its impact to twenty years of therapy. He notes its effectiveness in fostering self-awareness and emotional processing in a safe environment, where participants connect deeply without revealing personal identities. He also credits practices like exercise and daily meditation, particularly using an app called 'The Way,' with dramatically improving his well-being and discipline, emphasizing consistency over sporadic effort.
LEARNING FROM FAILURE: THE TWITTER OUSTER
Reflecting on major failures, Williams identifies being fired from Twitter as a deeply impactful event. Despite co-founding the company, his tenure as CEO ended unexpectedly. While devastating at the time, he now sees it as a crucial learning experience that facilitated personal growth and a better understanding of himself. The experience underscored the importance of humility and recognizing when one might be in over their head, ultimately leading to a more positive trajectory.
CONSUMING INFORMATION: CULTIVATING CURIOSITY
Williams discusses his curated approach to information intake, which includes limiting social media use and exploring diverse topics like quantum physics and music. He acknowledges the challenge of filtering information amidst vast publishing output, often relying on serendipity and curiosity. He advocates for books as a valuable source of deeper insights, even as he consumes content from various platforms, including YouTube, driven by a desire to understand the world beyond his immediate professional sphere.
DOING LESS: THE WISDOM OF FOCUSED EXECUTION
Reflecting on his product development approach, Williams advises against premature scaling and suggests a 'do less' strategy. Using Mozi as an example, he explains how they initially built extraneous features (like custom digital cards) but thankfully removed them to maintain focus on core utility—knowing where friends are. This contrasts with his experience at Medium, where he felt they scaled too quickly. He emphasizes that impatience for growth can lead to a diluted vision and that a concentrated effort on essential features is more effective.
PRIVACY AND CONNECTION IN MOZI'S DESIGN
Williams addresses potential user concerns about privacy within Mozi. He clarifies that the app operates on the assumption that if individuals share phone numbers, they are amenable to sharing a private profile with social handles, not just contact information. Crucially, location sharing is opt-in and context-specific to planned events, ensuring users control who sees their whereabouts. This deliberate, privacy-first approach aims to build a network without the common pitfalls of inadvertently oversharing personal data.
Mentioned in This Episode
●Products
●Software & Apps
●Companies
●Organizations
●Books
●Concepts
●People Referenced
Common Questions
The book argues that planning works well for formulaic tasks but hinders true innovation and creativity. For groundbreaking achievements, embracing unpredictability and trying new things is more effective than rigid planning.
Topics
Mentioned in this video
A podcasting company co-founded by Ev Williams that ultimately led to the creation of Twitter.
Ev Williams' venture firm that invests in companies addressing major global problems.
A meditation app recommended by Ev Williams, which he uses daily.
Author of the book 'Quit,' which discusses strategic quitting and underestimating opportunity costs.
A nostalgic reference used as a humorous segue into Ev Williams' first internet product.
A new app by Ev Williams designed to help friends find each other and get together.
Peter Drucker's book, mentioned as a past favorite of Ev Williams, which he finds less relevant now.
Used as a comparison to the level of discretion surrounding the Hoffman Process.
A book recommended by Ev Williams, emphasizing the unpredictable nature of innovation and creativity.
Author of 'All Fours,' a fiction book Ev Williams recently read.
Co-author of 'Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned,' discussing the unpredictability of innovation.
Mentioned for their 'Salvia growing guide,' in the context of psychedelics and intellectual property.
A topic Ev Williams has been geeking out on, related to physics and cosmology.
More from Tim Ferriss
View all 97 summaries
76 minHow to Quiet the Ruminative Mind and Avoid The Traps of Self-Help — Tim Ferriss
86 minNYT Bestselling Author on Writing 200+ Children's Books — Tish Rabe
134 minChampion of "Alone" on The Art of Survival — Jordan Jonas
105 minTim McGraw — Selling 100M+ Records and 30+ Years of Creative Longevity
Found this useful? Build your knowledge library
Get AI-powered summaries of any YouTube video, podcast, or article in seconds. Save them to your personal pods and access them anytime.
Try Summify free