Key Moments

When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora)

Lenny's PodcastLenny's Podcast
People & Blogs6 min read87 min video
Sep 10, 2023|11,290 views|239|29
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TL;DR

Successful tech leaders are burning out partly due to childhood trauma, yet their ingrained drive for achievement can prevent them from seeking help until rock bottom.

Key Insights

1

At least 50-60% of tech employees with 5-7 years of experience are experiencing some form of psychological and emotional distress.

2

Andy Johns, a former VP at Facebook and Twitter, walked away from a seven-figure venture capital role after realizing his drive for achievement stemmed from childhood trauma survivor mechanisms.

3

Deep personal transformation follows a four-step process: suffering, seeking the truth, self-compassion, and compassion for others.

4

Signs of needing transformation include disruptions in fundamental behaviors like sleep, diet, exercise, socialization, and failing physical health, not just day-to-day stress.

5

Finding the right therapist is crucial, prioritizing feeling safe and comfortable, ideally with a therapist who matches your intellectual level.

6

Writing with pen and paper can be a powerful, overlooked tool for self-discovery and understanding the source of suffering.

The hidden toll of achievement on mental well-being

Andy Johns, a former high-flying product and growth leader at tech giants like Facebook, Twitter, and Wealthfront, shares his personal journey from professional success to profound burnout. Despite building an impressive career and reaching roles with salaries in the high six figures to early seven figures, Johns was simultaneously struggling deeply with his emotional, psychological, and spiritual health. This culminated in near-constant panic attacks and depression, leading him to leave high-profile positions, including one where he was next in line to be CEO. He highlights that as his career reached its pinnacle, other aspects of his life were at their lowest. This realization set him on a path of introspection and healing, eventually leading him to become a mental health advocate.

Unearthing the roots of burnout in childhood trauma

Johns explains that his burnout wasn't solely due to the pressures of his escalating career. A significant contributing factor was the surfacing of deep emotional pain stemming from his childhood. His mother, who suffered from severe mental illness, passed away when he was ten, leaving him with profound grief, disruption, neglect, and occasional abuse. In an effort to cope, young Johns latched onto achievement—excelling academically and athletically—as a way to gain love and feel whole. This adaptation, while saving him as a child and propelling his early success, eventually became detrimental. His mind, seeking external validation through achievement, masked underlying wounds. When his career reached new heights, these buried emotional wounds naturally began to surface, amplified by the increasing pressures of his professional life. This combination of external and internal pressures led to his acute burnout and the realization that a fundamental life change was necessary.

The prevalence of distress in the tech industry

Drawing from his own experiences and extensive conversations within the tech community, Johns estimates that at least 50-60% of tech employees who have been in the industry for five to seven years are experiencing some form of psychological and emotional distress. He notes this distress often creeps up slowly, starting as what seems like minor anxiety but frequently being more significant than people realize until it hits rapidly. He also discusses his own physical manifestations of this distress, including a heart scare at 35, years of severe teeth grinding requiring extensive dental work, and the need for a 45-day stay at a mental health institute. These physical signals, he stresses, are undeniable indicators that something detrimental to well-being is occurring and that change is needed.

A framework for deep personal transformation

Johns outlines a four-step framework for deep personal transformation that he has both experienced and observed in others: 1. **Suffering:** Significant life transitions rarely occur without suffering. The deeper the suffering, the more profound the potential transition. This is often the catalyst, akin to reaching 'rock bottom.' 2. **Seeking the truth:** Once suffering becomes unbearable, individuals are motivated to change. This involves a long process of digging into the subconscious mind, history, and relationships to understand the root cause of one's suffering and maladaptive patterns. 3. **Self-compassion and self-love:** Discovering the truth often reveals that suffering was not entirely one's fault, stemming from past experiences beyond one's control. This realization enables forgiveness, self-compassion, and self-love, shifting the focus from shame to acceptance. 4. **Compassion for others:** Understanding and forgiving oneself naturally extends to seeing the shared struggles and humanity in others, fostering compassion. This four-step process fundamentally rewires one's identity, upon which all external life structures are built.

The role of therapy and self-guided exploration

When individuals are ready to seek the truth behind their suffering, Johns recommends the most common first step is to engage with a therapist or counselor. He emphasizes the importance of feeling safe and comfortable with a therapist, suggesting a 'speed dating' approach to find the right fit. Ideally, a therapist should possess intellectual depth that matches or exceeds the client's, fostering respect and openness. For those not in acute distress or hesitant about therapy, Johns points to the ancient practice of writing with pen and paper as a powerful, overlooked tool. This can range from unstructured journaling, allowing thoughts to flow freely, to more structured approaches like identifying recent emotional reactions and exploring the 'why' behind them. He notes that the 'truth' discovered will often feel deeply uncomfortable or like an epiphany.

Overcoming societal conditioning and personal inertia

A significant barrier to change is the 'inertia of society' and the deep-seated need for love and acceptance, which can override our innate individuality. From a young age, individuals are conditioned to conform to societal norms and beliefs, often sacrificing their unique selves to gain acceptance from parents, peers, and institutions. This learned behavior, driven by a primal fear of not belonging, can become a deeply ingrained narrative. Transformation requires consciously challenging this conditioning, potentially risking rejection to reclaim one's individuality. Johns suggests this is less about free will and more about following a path that was perhaps pre-ordained, where the suffering becomes so intense that there is no other choice but to pursue self-discovery and liberation from the old self.

The journey of self-discovery: finding your own path to Bangkok

Johns uses the analogy of finding one's own road to Bangkok to illustrate the personal nature of healing and transformation. He emphasizes that while many seek happiness or peace, blindly following someone else's prescribed path or teachings may not lead to genuine fulfillment. Real change comes from discovering what uniquely works for the individual. This involves embracing the truths uncovered through suffering and self-reflection, and then practicing self-compassion and self-love through daily actions, however small. He likens his own journey, and those of figures like the Buddha or Pema Chödrön, to a multi-year process of navigating a 'valley' between old and new identities. Ultimately, he advocates for surrendering to life's current, like whitewater rafting, rather than fighting it, trusting that by relaxing and paying attention to inner signals, one can arrive at a more authentic and meaningful destination.

Living with evolving identities and finding peace

Johns is currently practicing what he calls 'floating downriver' instead of 'climbing mountains.' He describes his past approach to life as constantly seeking the next peak of achievement, which was ultimately exhausting and unsustainable. Now, he aims to surrender to life's flow, comparing it to a whitewater rafting technique where one lies back and lets the current guide them. This allows for discoveries of amazing opportunities downstream, provided one is willing to let go of the need to control and predict the future. He is currently living this philosophy in Vietnam, embracing the uncertainty and seeing where life leads him. He acknowledges that while the journey can be both the best and worst thing that happens to someone, it is through these defining experiences that a life is truly lived.

Navigating Personal Transformation: Key Steps & Mindsets

Practical takeaways from this episode

Do This

Acknowledge and embrace suffering as a catalyst for change.
Seek the truth behind your suffering by exploring your past and subconscious.
Practice self-compassion and self-love once you understand the root causes.
Develop compassion for others by understanding yourself.
Engage in daily practices, whether journaling, therapy, or other chosen methods.
Allow the 'current' of life to guide you by surrendering and releasing control.
Trust that finding your own 'path to Bangkok' is essential for well-being.

Avoid This

Resist or ignore suffering; it's a necessary part of deep change.
Rely solely on others to find your truth; the journey is ultimately personal.
Expect overnight transformation; it's a gradual process that takes time and practice.
Fight the current of life; learn to surrender and allow change.
Follow someone else's path to fulfillment; discover your own unique way.

Common Questions

Signs include persistent disruption of fundamental functions like sleep, strained relationships, and failing physical health. These are undeniable signals from your body that something detrimental is occurring and needs change.

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