Why is it important to label current political trends as 'fascism'?

The speaker argues that labels like 'fascism' are necessary to cut through the constant distractions and outrages, allowing people to focus on the bigger picture. Using the correct label helps to order thoughts and keep track of the direction the country is heading.

What are the '18 characteristics' associated with fascism mentioned in the article?

The article lists characteristics that are consonant with fascism and dissonant with liberal pluralism. These include the demolition of norms, the manipulation of public discourse, and the glorification of violence, which the author argues are evident in current political trends.

How did historical fascist leaders like Hitler and Mussolini present themselves?

Historically, fascist figures like Hitler and Mussolini were often initially seen as comical or buffoonish. This perception made them easy targets for satire, but their ultimate success showed that this comedic facade was an effective part of their strategy to manipulate public discourse and gain power.

How does the 'demolition of norms' function in a fascist strategy?

Fascists employ the demolition of norms through trolling, extreme insults, and outrageous comments to dominate the dialogue. This strategy incapacitates liberals and those trained in civility, who cannot effectively compete in such an aggressive and norm-breaking space.

What is meant by the 'glorification of violence' in the context of fascism?

This refers to rhetoric and actions that suggest violence can be a first resort, rather than a reluctantly used last resort. Examples include violent memes shared on government platforms or official reactions that label protesters as terrorists, indicating a departure from liberal democratic principles.

What is the significance of the Prey killing in relation to the Second Amendment?

The Prey killing, where a peaceful protester was killed by federal agents without reaching for his weapon, is seen as a repudiation of the Second Amendment. The subsequent rhetoric from officials, suggesting possession of a firearm near law enforcement is a death sentence, further alarmed those who view the Second Amendment as a crucial civil liberty.

Yes, It’s Fascism

Sam Harris

Science & Technology3 min read24 min video

Feb 4, 2026|249,342 views|8,081|3,010

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Key Moments

TL;DR

Sam Harris and Jonathan Rauch discuss Trump's politics aligning with fascism, based on 18 criteria, moving beyond patrimonialism.

Key Insights

Jonathan Rauch argues Trump's actions and rhetoric increasingly fit the criteria for fascism, a label he initially resisted.

Patrimonialism, where the state is treated as personal property for enrichment, is a precursor to fascism but lacks its ideological aggression.

Fascism involves demolishing norms, glorifying violence, promoting a cult of personality, and rejecting liberal pluralism.

The demagogic tactic of presenting as a comical or unserious figure can mask a deliberate manipulation of public discourse.

The rhetoric and actions surrounding the killing of Patrick Lyoya, and the government's reaction, reflect a disregard for the Second Amendment and due process.

The MAGA movement is unlikely to voluntarily relinquish power, potentially leading to a system where individuals are accountable directly to rulers.

THE RELUCTANT APPLICATION OF THE FACSCISM LABEL

Jonathan Rauch shares his initial reluctance to label Donald Trump's political movement as fascist, a term he had hoped never to use. He previously described Trump's governance style as 'patrimonialism,' characterized by the state being treated as the personal property and family business of the leader. This approach involves corrupt and incompetent administration, prioritizing loyalists over experts, and personal enrichment. However, over time, Rauch observed the emergence of numerous characteristics associated with fascism, making it increasingly difficult to withhold the label.

DISTINGUISHING PATRIMONIALISM FROM FASCISM

Rauch clarifies that patrimonialism, while deeply problematic, is distinct from fascism. Patrimonialism focuses on personal gain and control over state resources, lacking the ideological or aggressive expansionist aims of fascism. The primary goal is often enrichment, as seen with tariff policies benefiting the Trump family. In contrast, fascism involves an ideological reorientation of the government and society, with a focus on aggression, ideological purity, and often, the use of force. The weakening of bureaucratic competence in patrimonialism stems from a desire to replace experts with loyalists, not necessarily for ideological reasons.

CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM AND TRUMP'S MOVEMENT

Rauch outlines 18 characteristics associated with fascism that he believes align with Trump's actions and the direction he seeks for the country. These include the demolition of norms, where extreme insults and trolling serve to dominate the discourse and render liberal democrats unable to compete. Fascists intentionally manipulate public discourse to ensure they are constantly in people's minds and to shift the boundaries of acceptable dialogue, making traditional civility ineffective.

THE GLORIFICATION OF VIOLENCE AND EROSION OF INSTITUTIONS

A key characteristic discussed is the glorification of violence. While not necessarily equating to mass murder like the Night of the Long Knives, it encompasses rhetoric and actions that suggest violence can be a first resort. Examples cited include the forceful handling and killing of peaceful protesters and the government's justification of such actions as necessary against 'terrorists' or 'insurrectionists.' This rhetoric, coupled with the sharing of violent memes and imagery, is seen as incompatible with democratic ideals and a deliberate tactic to normalize coercion.

THE 'COMICAL CLOWN' TACTIC AND REJECTION OF SERIOUSNESS

Historically, fascist figures often present as comical or unserious to disarm opponents and public ridicule. This tactic, exemplified by early portrayals of Hitler and Mussolini, is seen in Trump's leadership style. The approach of 'take him seriously, but not literally' has allowed many to dismiss his inflammatory statements and actions. However, Rauch argues this is a deliberate strategy to distract from the larger agenda and to control the narrative, making it difficult to maintain focus on the critical issues at hand.

THE CULT OF PERSONALITY AND RISK OF UNCHECKED POWER

The discussion highlights the development of a cult of personality around Trump and the MAGA movement, characterized by an unwillingness to relinquish power voluntarily. This creates a risk of transitioning into an 'abnormal system' of 'kangaroo courts' where accountability is directly to the rulers rather than to the law. The erosion of neutral institutions and the rejection of pluralism, by treating opposition as enemies, are further indicators of a movement that could fundamentally alter democratic structures if allowed to fully capture the state.

Mentioned in This Episode

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Common Questions

Patrimonialism describes a system where the state is treated as the personal property of the leader, leading to corruption and incompetence by prioritizing loyalists over experts. Fascism, while sharing some of these traits, is also ideological, aggressive, and organized around a promise of national rebirth, often involving the glorification of violence.

Topics

Fascism Political Terminology Patrimonialism Govnernance Violence Historical Parallels Norm Erosion Second Amendment

Mentioned in this video

personChristine Gnome

Mentioned as speaking about the Second Amendment following the Prey killing, reflecting a dismissal of the amendment's protections.

personJohn McCain

Mentioned as an example of someone insulted by Trump during his campaign, fitting the 'demolition of norms' characteristic.

personJonathan Roush

Co-author of the article 'Yes, It's Fascism' for The Atlantic, interviewed about the terminology and characteristics of fascism in relation to the current political climate.

personPresident Obama

Mentioned in the context of Tulsi Gabbard's accusation of treason against him, highlighting rhetoric that is dismissed as unserious.

toolThe Atlantic

The publication where Jonathan Roush's article 'Yes, It's Fascism' was published.

personSteven Miller

Mentioned as an example of someone considered more ideological and potentially dangerous than Trump himself, in the context of fascist characteristics.